Ukraine Heats Up
 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...y.html?hpid=z1

26 dead in protests, I hope this cools down.:(

I don't think it will cool down anytime soon. It remains to be seen whether the EU grows some cojones and presents a united front with us against Putin's influence. I kinda doubt it. It'll fester.

Yanukovych is playing for time.

The President warned the Ukraine against stepping over "the line." I wish he'd shelve that phrase. :(

Exactly.

Indeed. Thankfully, his line is pretty elastic.:rolleyes:

I'm wondering what going to happen once the Olympics are over. Is Russia wanting to wait till then to bring the hammer down?

The EU (Germany) is getting pressure to make up the funds they need instead of getting it from the RU. Is what I heard on BBC Radio Broadcast this morning IIRC.

Barney

The EU led by Germany does not want an indigent case.

Merkel is smart and recognizes a sink hole. Remember Ukraine was
led by the darling Tymoshenko who proved just as corrupt.

Greece is enough!

What can anyone do? I don't want to let the Prez or E.U. off the hook, but that place is in Vlad's backyard.

German Secretary of State Steinmeier wanted to act as mediator in the conflict, together with two collegues from Poland and France. They arrived at Kiev today and left Kiev instantly again, without meeting anybody.

:eek:

Yep. The truce announced yesterday broke down and now there are bullets flying.

I am actually a bit confused now. I got the the informations from CNN and German CNN offshoot NTV three hours ago that the negotiations did not happen. But latest internet infos say they did.

Anyway - EU pressure will be in vain, I am convinced of that, because Janukovych is a puppet of Putin.

Or because the EU is not prepared to pay the asking price.

The Western border of the Ukraine is just 500 miles away from Berlin. High professional snipers kill opposites just to statisfy their need for killing, according to a doctor working in a Kiev hotel which is transformed into a "hospital" since today.

Medvedev demands for more efficient actions by Yanukovych - I do not know what THAT means. Perhaps a consequence will be civil war?

Perhaps chemical weapons.....

Yep. It's pretty bad. Snipers on both sides and police using automatic weapons.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...y.html?hpid=z1

Ukraine President, Opposition Sign Compromise Deal

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...741947218.html

Hope this sticks, cooler heads prevail. Yanukovych has lost the country anyway to the pro west supporters. Love to see Putin lose. Syria next? Hope so.

Or to the Right Sector?

In post #14 I supposed a civil war and now I fear a civil war and a (presumably) resulting separation of the nation into a pro West and a pro Russia part. This scenario gets more and more realistic, although the opposition became stronger and the time of Yanukovych has been running out.

It is like a crime thirller, but this is a crime thriller with a lot of real blood.

Suddenly this all made me think of an old cigarette advert, Virginia Slime I think. It said "You've come a longh way baby." Oh really, have we? If I had not seen the sun rise in the east this morning I would swear that someone had reversed the earth's rotation and we were going backward in time.

Ukraine’s parliament votes to oust president; former prime minister is freed from jail
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...9c0_story.html

Still a possibility for civil war? I don't see it unless Russia starts arming the pro Yanukovych forces.

I hope you're right, but there are already ample arms in eastern Ukraine and the Crimea.

Wow! I hope the peace holds and cooler heads prevail in this. Amazing.

If the army supports Parliament, it's over. Otherwise, it's not.

Timoschenko (Tymoshenko): "Fight to the end! Heroes never die!"

Well now that she has been freed perhaps she will get proper medical attention.

Yes, she is suffering from prolapsed intervertebral disc...wow... I had to look up that one...

She is such a strong brave woman but jail made her sick since a long time.

Merkel invited her yesterday to come to Berlin in order to get the very best treatment. She thankfully accepted the invitation and will come to Berlin in March.

Brings something else to mind. Look for another thread.

Yanukovych last seen in the Crimea and on the run. Warrants issued for his arrest for mass murder. Wow! :eek: That was some opulent palace he had built for himself outside of Kiev.

Did you notice his toilet bowl?

WOW! :eek:

:D

Nah. Was it gold trimmed marble or simply solid gold?

This wont end well. Did Obama really think having Susan Rice issue a threat to Putin was a good idea? Sending troops into the port and shifting the troops from Sochi to the border seems to be his response to that.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...ute-sevastopol

I thought this interview yesterday was pretty interesting.
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldne...Dominance.html

Trimmed. But it looks like a crapchair of a Pharao!

Moving a ship to Sevastopol has nothing to do with Susan Rice. Crimea is four-square behind Putin and Russia has concerns about its largest warm water port there.

Russian Foreign Ministry issued this response to Susan Rice.
"Russia sees merit in the advice against use of force in Ukraine which US National Security Adviser Susan Rice voiced, but believes it was wrongly directed towards Moscow. Washington would be a more appropriate recipient of the piece of wisdom.

“We have noted the expert assessment of Susan Rice based on multiple cases when American troops were sent to various places of the word, especially those where the US administration believed the norms of Western democracy were in danger, or where the local regimes were getting out of hand,” a Russian Foreign Ministry source told news agencies on Monday.

The source added that, “We expect that national security adviser would be giving to the US leadership the same advice on the mistaken path of the use of force if it decides to conduct a new intervention.”

The veiled reproach comes after a Sunday interview, in which Susan Rice said bluntly that sending troops to restore ousted President Yanukovich’s leadership in Kiev "would be a grave mistake" on the part of Russia.

Rice did not elaborate on why she believed Moscow would even consider using military force to help Yanukovich. During the three months of confrontation in Ukraine, Western officials flocked to the country in support of the opposition crowd. Russia, meanwhile, distanced itself from the situation and only criticized the West for what Moscow considered blatant meddling in Ukraine's internal affairs.

“The position of some of our Western partners doesn’t show genuine concern, but a desire to act out of geopolitical self-interest,” said a statement on the Russian foreign ministry’s website.

Following the ouster of President Yanukovich, Moscow has not changed its stance nor voiced any support for him. It only criticized the opposition for not keeping its word and breaking a West-sponsored reconciliation agreement, which it signed with Yanukovich.

Moscow wants to see somebody in Kiev who would have the authority and power to implement whatever agreements the countries may negotiate, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev stressed on Monday.

“Frankly, the legitimacy of many governmental bodies is in doubt there,” he said. “Treating masked men armed with Kalashnikov rifles, who are now circling Kiev, as a government – we would find it difficult working with such a government.”

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the establishment of new Russia, it has fought just one war with a foreign power. In 2008, Russian tanks were sent to Georgia, after the latter tried to use military force to seize control over its breakaway region of South Ossetia. Russia justified its actions by the death of Russian peacekeepers who were stationed in Georgia under a UN mandate with the brief not to allow military action between Georgians and Ossetians, and who were killed by the advancing Georgian troops.

Russia also used its military in its own territory in the Republic of Chechnya, which went from a nationalist uprising to forming a de facto independent government to transforming into a hotbed of banditry and terrorism, spilling violence into neighboring Russian regions. Moscow eventually took Chechnya back under its control through alliances with some local militant factions and by offering generous rebuilding funding in exchange for assurances of security and loyalty.

In 1991, when the USSR ceased to exist, the US conducted a war against Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Since then America has fought four major wars against foreign nations, including the bombing campaign in Yugoslavia, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq (for the second time), and the bombing campaign in Libya. It stopped short of starting a fifth war against Syria in 2013, a move which was prevented in large part by the mediation of Russia, which convinced the Syrian government to relinquish its chemical weapons.

Washington justifies its interventions on humanitarian reasons and the obligation to depose repressive governments. Such obligations however, do not seem to apply to countries which have a poor human rights record, like Saudi Arabia, but remain American allies."
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle37745.htm

It didn't take Rice's statement on TV to stoke Russian fears/concerns of our (and EU) middling about in Ukraine. They bugged our ambassador and State official and released it to Youtube long before Rice made her statement. Her statement was nothing other than a confirmation of standing US policy on the matter, something the Russians have known for quite a while now.

I didn't say it did. This is of course an ongoing, developing situation. Putin was B slapping Obama going back to the G8 in June of 2013.
"Putin went on: “You have spread anarchy in Libya after Mu‘ammar al-Qadhdhafi. Nobody can put together an authority capable of working to rebuild the state there. Yemen after the departure of ‘Ali ‘Abdallah Salih lacks stability in government and there is no peace in the streets. Military and security unrest continues to prevail in all the regions of the country. As to the Persian Gulf, the whole area from Bahrain to the rest of the states there is sitting atop a volcano,” Putin said.

The diplomatic source reported the Russian President as saying: “You want Russia to abandon Asad and his regime and go along with an Opposition whose leaders don’t know anything except issuing fatwas declaring people heretics, and whose members – who come from a bunch of different countries and have multiple orientations – don’t know anything except how to slaughter people and eat human flesh. You use double standards and approach the crisis in Syria using summer and winter styles under one roof. You lie to your own peoples so as to further your interests. This is none of our business. But it is impermissible for you to lie to us and to the countries and peoples of the world, because the international stage is no longer yours alone. Your ability to monopolize it the way you did two decades ago is now gone for good.”

Putin continued: “In Syria all of you are standing on the side of the forces that for the last 10 years you have claimed to be fighting against under the rubric of ‘fighting terror.’ Now today you are with them, helping them to take power across the region. You declare that you’re going to arm them and work to facilitate sending their fighters to Syria to bring it down, weaken it, and break it up.” Putin asked, “In God’s name what kind of democracy are you talking about? You want a democratic regime in Syria to take the place of the Asad regime, but are Turkey and the countries you’re allied with in the region blessed with democracy?”

Putin addressed US President Obama specifically, saying: “Your country sent its army to Afghanistan in the year 2001 on the excuse that you are fighting the Taliban and the al-Qa‘idah Organization and other fundamentalist terrorists whom your government accused of carrying out the 11 September attacks on New York and Washington. And here you are today making an alliance with them in Syria. And you and your allies are declaring your desire to send them weapons. And here you have Qatar in which you [the US] have your biggest base in the region and in the territory of that country the Taliban are opening a representative office.”

:confused: