Political Forums

Political Forums (http://www.politicalchat.org/index.php)
-   Economy (http://www.politicalchat.org/forumdisplay.php?f=27)
-   -   Skewering of Leftist Economic "Conventional Wisdom" (http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=12192)

whell 01-24-2018 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 366612)
Are you actually challenging the fact that Trump responds favorably to people who speak favorably of him and lashes out at those who criticize him? Really?:confused:

Where did I lose you, Finn? Do I need to type slower so you can follow along? :rolleyes:

Frankly, I don't give a shit about Trump's interpersonal style, as you seem to be (re?)focusing on above. Here's our discussion for your review. Maybe this will help you understand.

Chickie said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicks (Post 366526)
Apple Inc. announced a series of plans Wednesday that were celebrated as promises to hire thousands of workers and bring home all of its overseas cash.

Well, not necessarily.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ap...ash-2018-01-17

The Marketwatch article appears to want to parse the phrase "creating new jobs", suggesting that those jobs could be outside the US, or at other companies beside Apple.

Then you responded:

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 366527)
I think this is yet another example of a corporate CEO's blowing smoke up Trump's ass so that he'll have a favorable impression of them as in the Carrier deal.

So, you're trying to create some moral equivalence between a 700 jobs at Carrier being retained versus 20000 new jobs at Apple. Pretty big stretch, but hey, that's never stopped you before.

However, the Marketwatch article has lots of issues (dare I say fake news). Here's what CNBC says:

Apple said it's opening a new campus in the U.S. as part of a plan to pour billions of dollars into the domestic economy.

"The company plans to establish an Apple campus in a new location, which will initially house technical support for customers," Apple said in a statement Wednesday. "The location of this new facility will be announced later in the year."

The tech giant said more broadly that it plans to contribute $350 billion to the U.S. economy over the next five years.

Apple just finished $5 billion of renovations to its headquarters in Cupertino, California, and is now gearing up to expand its reach and its workforce.


So, contrary to Marketwatch, CNBC states that the jobs created will - either in full or in part - staff their new campus which has yet to be built but WILL be located in the US.

You said that all of this was simply "yet another example of a corporate CEO's blowing smoke up Trump's ass so that he'll have a favorable impression of them as in the Carrier deal."

You said it, I didn't. Whatever I think, or you think, about Trump's interpersonal communications, you're suggesting that Tim Cook and company are willing to spend billions to avoid having Trump mad at them. Sorry, the world isn't populated by snowflakes (like you?) who cringe and cower at the thought of someone saying mean things to them.

finnbow 01-24-2018 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 366633)
Where did I lose you, Finn?...

The bottom line is that nobody yet knows the true impact of the tax bill, notwithstanding the recent few announcements from Apple, Walmart, etc. However, I think it's quite clear that it will help stockholders far more than the working man. Moreover, I also believe that the GOP blew a golden opportunity to do a really good tax bill, not just a $1.5 trillion giveaway to big business and the wealthy (though I think big tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations are actually all they really wanted to do all along).

Bank of America’s bonuses will cost the bank $145 million in 2018, or about 5 percent of the nearly $2.7 billion in savings it is expected to reap in 2018 from a lower, 21 percent corporate tax rate. Apple’s bonuses will cost $300 million, a fraction of the $40 billion, at least, that the tech giant is saving from a single provision in the law, which allows it to return earnings held overseas at less than half the rate it would have paid under the old system.

And two days before Walmart snagged glowing headlines for handing out $400 million in bonuses and lifting its minimum wage at a cost of $300 million, the nation’s largest retailer by sales unveiled a plan to buy back company-issued debt. The cost of the buyback: $4 billion.

The gap between what companies are saving and how they are, so far, rewarding workers, doesn’t mean that the new law won’t eventually lead to substantial wage increases. Economists across the political spectrum agree it’s simply too soon to tell whether — and to what degree — that will happen.

The flurry of high-profile bonus announcements “are hard to interpret,” said Mihir Desai, an economist at Harvard Business School and Harvard Law School whose research supports the idea that corporate tax cuts lead to at least modest wage increases. “They may well be evidence for these gains, but just as well may be an example of savvy public relations. The reality is we’ll have to wait for a few years and good empirical work to really know the answer.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/u...mp-impact.html

Pio1980 01-24-2018 03:02 PM

We effectively handed regulation and policy over to folks who will benefit from manipulating both for their own purposes. What does a reasonable person expect from that, other than a severe screwing when they bail before their house of cards collapses.

bobabode 01-24-2018 07:24 PM

'No, Apple Is Not Creating 20,000 Jobs Because of the Tax Bill'

https://slate.com/business/2018/01/n...-tax-bill.html

Chicks 01-24-2018 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 366644)
'No, Apple Is Not Creating 20,000 Jobs Because of the Tax Bill'

https://slate.com/business/2018/01/n...-tax-bill.html

So Whell is just regurgitating the speculation he heard on Fox "News" or limblow. Sounds about right.

Chicks 01-25-2018 08:09 AM

Hedge fund billionaire Howard Marks is throwing cold water on the GOP tax law

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hedge...211040536.html

“So call it a gift to the corporate sector if you want, but I think it's unlikely to be much of a job-creator or long-term boon for the American middle class”

"We've seen a number of companies give raises or bonuses following the enactment of the tax law, but I doubt it was done out of generosity," Marks wrote.

He says there's every reason to believe that most of the corporate tax benefit will be used to "enhance credit ratings, fatten dividend payments, and finance stock buybacks."

All of that is fine and well, but those weren't the rationales Republicans gave for passing the tax plan, according to Marks.

"Instead, it was billed as a job-creator," he wrote. "With unemployment already below average, many CEOs tell me they're hamstrung by a scarcity of qualified workers. So who will fill the new jobs if corporations expand in the US? And if workers aren't available, will new plants (and jobs) really be created?"

whell 01-25-2018 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicks (Post 366647)
So Whell is just regurgitating the speculation he heard on Fox "News" or limblow. Sounds about right.

Wrong again, Chickie. My post on this was sourced from CNBC:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/appl...r-5-years.html

whell 01-25-2018 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 366644)
'No, Apple Is Not Creating 20,000 Jobs Because of the Tax Bill'

https://slate.com/business/2018/01/n...-tax-bill.html

Of course, no one ever said that Apple was creating the new jobs "just because" of the tax bill. So, not sure who this article or your post is directed at unless you've decided to argue with yourself about this. :rolleyes:

whell 01-25-2018 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicks (Post 366651)
Hedge fund billionaire Howard Marks is throwing cold water on the GOP tax law

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hedge...211040536.html

“So call it a gift to the corporate sector if you want, but I think it's unlikely to be much of a job-creator or long-term boon for the American middle class”

"We've seen a number of companies give raises or bonuses following the enactment of the tax law, but I doubt it was done out of generosity," Marks wrote.

He says there's every reason to believe that most of the corporate tax benefit will be used to "enhance credit ratings, fatten dividend payments, and finance stock buybacks."

All of that is fine and well, but those weren't the rationales Republicans gave for passing the tax plan, according to Marks.

"Instead, it was billed as a job-creator," he wrote. "With unemployment already below average, many CEOs tell me they're hamstrung by a scarcity of qualified workers. So who will fill the new jobs if corporations expand in the US? And if workers aren't available, will new plants (and jobs) really be created?"

Well no shit Sherlock. Any increase in wages would be done only with a solid business case supporting it. Businesses are not likely to make their business case public, but the most likely reason would be that wage increases / bonuses, investments, etc., are part of forward-looking strategies to maintain competitive wages and reduce the risk of employee turnover heading into a tightening job market and sustain anticipated growth.

And, to me, its HILARIOUS to see high workforce utilization / lowering unemployment to be spun as if its going an issue that will be worsened by a corporate tax cut, as if additional job opportunities and economic growth was some kind of "problem". :rolleyes:

nailer 01-25-2018 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 366636)
...Moreover, I also believe that the GOP blew a golden opportunity to do a really good tax bill...

Good GOP tax bill is an oxymoron.

Do you believe in the tooth fairy too? :cool:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.