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-   -   Health Insurance company profits (http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=12026)

JCricket 10-15-2017 08:56 AM

Health Insurance company profits
 
Hey, does anyone know where to find, if they exist, the provit peveps of the insurance companies? Specifically, how has Obamacare affected this?
I did not spend a lot of time googling, but I did find this
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news...ses-110116.htm

It is a bit weak of an article to be used as proof. I did not find anything more substantial to quote.

The article simply states the insurance companies are showing record profits despite AHCA

mpholland 10-15-2017 09:55 AM

A couple more articles.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/18/b...rs-profit.html

https://www.axios.com/profits-are-bo...418194773.html

whell 10-15-2017 10:22 AM

Obamacare has been a big, wet kiss from the Democrat party to the health care stocks.

https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/?symbol=XLV

JCricket 10-15-2017 11:38 AM

It certainly seems like the insurance companies have made more than ever.
I WONDER IF THE DEMOCRATS KNEW THIS IF THEY WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO ALTER(DAMM CAPs LOCK) or replace the AHCA.

I know I am PO's that they are making this money and still raising their rates by so much next year. I still think that all health care should be a "not for profit" industry. Not a "non-profit", but a not for profit.

icenine 10-15-2017 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCricket (Post 362605)
It certainly seems like the insurance companies have made more than ever.
I WONDER IF THE DEMOCRATS KNEW THIS IF THEY WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO ALTER(DAMM CAPs LOCK) or replace the AHCA.

I know I am PO's that they are making this money and still raising their rates by so much next year. I still think that all health care should be a "not for profit" industry. Not a "non-profit", but a not for profit.

You could replace it with single payer and your taxes would really go up, so Americans would complain about that also. Unlike in the UK where most citizens favor the National Health Americans would deride Medicare For All just like they seem to hate all other aspects of big government.

Not saying single payer would not be better just telling the truth. That is why we have Trump in the White House right now.

whell 10-15-2017 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCricket (Post 362605)
I WONDER IF THE DEMOCRATS KNEW THIS IF THEY WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO ALTER(DAMM CAPs LOCK) or replace the AHCA.

I know I am PO's that they are making this money and still raising their rates by so much next year. I still think that all health care should be a "not for profit" industry. Not a "non-profit", but a not for profit.

The Democrats know this was going to be the case BEFORE they passed the ACA. That's why the insurance carriers were at the negotiating table with the Dems during while the legislative pieces of the ACA were being drafted. That's why you have components of the ACA such as the CSR payments and the Transitional Reinsurance Program.

barbara 10-15-2017 04:13 PM

Insurance rates were going up before the ACA.
I remember mine going up in the two years prior to the legislation.

Bob T 10-15-2017 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icenine (Post 362606)
You could replace it with single payer and your taxes would really go up...

I would gladly pay more taxes if we could move to single payer. I am sure the taxes would be less than the $1600 a month I pay now for health insurance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbara (Post 362609)
Insurance rates were going up before the ACA.
I remember mine going up in the two years prior to the legislation.

Agreed....and single payer is probably the best option to control costs...

MrPots 10-15-2017 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icenine (Post 362606)
You could replace it with single payer and your taxes would really go up, so Americans would complain about that also. Unlike in the UK where most citizens favor the National Health Americans would deride Medicare For All just like they seem to hate all other aspects of big government.

Not saying single payer would not be better just telling the truth. That is why we have Trump in the White House right now.

Taxes would have to go up a hell of a lot before it offsets what I'm paying in premiums.

I could absorb a 10% income tax increase and still come out ahead if I didn't have insurance premiums.

Bob T 10-15-2017 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPots (Post 362611)
Taxes would have to go up a hell of a lot before it offsets what I'm paying in premiums.

I could absorb a 10% income tax increase and still come out ahead if I didn't have insurance premiums.

You and I both, Mr P....

Rajoo 10-15-2017 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob T (Post 362612)
You and I both, Mr P....

Except the taxes will be going down if Trump & the GOP had their way, which they may with the budget resolution.

In the interim, Trump's mentor had this to say today.

Trump Ally Says President Cut Off Obamacare Payments To Destroy Health Law

Quote:

“Not gonna make the CSR [cost-sharing reduction] payments. Gonna blow that thing up, gonna blow those [insurance] exchanges up, right?” Steve Bannon, the executive chairman of the website Breitbart News, said Saturday in a speech at the Values Voter Summit, a conservative convention in Washington, D.C.
When a party or their leader cannot govern, next best thing to do is to undo.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-all...174121430.html

icenine 10-15-2017 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob T (Post 362610)
I would gladly pay more taxes if we could move to single payer. I am sure the taxes would be less than the $1600 a month I pay now for health insurance.


Agreed....and single payer is probably the best option to control costs...

Yeah people in your situation are mad. I can also tell you that people are going to be really pissed off paying more in taxes also. It is a game of winners and losers.
I probably paid close to 15-16k income taxes last year. I would imagine single payer would add about 5k more at the least. People below the poverty line or who don't make much in income will love single payer. Middle and upper middle class people will whine about it.

I mean if single payer was so popular we would have it by now, right?

Plus there would be wide spread rationing and waiting lists for elective surgery also. People really complain about that.

whell 10-15-2017 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbara (Post 362609)
Insurance rates were going up before the ACA.
I remember mine going up in the two years prior to the legislation.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ance-premium-/

"I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year."

whell 10-15-2017 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajoo (Post 362614)
Except the taxes will be going down if Trump & the GOP had their way, which they may with the budget resolution.

In the interim, Trump's mentor had this to say today.

[B]Trump Ally Says President Cut Off Obamacare Payments To Destroy Health Law[/

When a party or their leader cannot govern, next best thing to do is to undo.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-all...174121430.html

Bannon is blowing smoke. I think it far more likely this is a move to get Congress together to negotiate on this.

JCricket 10-15-2017 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icenine (Post 362615)
Yeah people in your situation are mad. I can also tell you that people are going to be really pissed off paying more in taxes also. It is a game of winners and losers.
I probably paid close to 15-16k income taxes last year. I would imagine single payer would add about 5k more at the least. People below the poverty line or who don't make much in income will love single payer. Middle and upper middle class people will whine about it.

I mean if single payer was so popular we would have it by now, right?

Plus there would be wide spread rationing and waiting lists for elective surgery also. People really complain about that.


First, the fear mongering and finger pointing from both sides has clouded any real perspective on single payer. Quite frankly I wish I could make an informed decision about single payer. there is so much info and mis-info out there it is near impossible to see what is real and what is not. Like many others stated, if I could move to single payer healthcare, I could easily let go $10k of my income to pay for it and still come out ahead. About $16k is my current health care costs. If things fall apart with my prescription pan it will jump another $45k per year, yes fourty-five thousand. That would be completely un-resolvable to me.
As to elective surgery, if it really is elective, then why should we be paying for it? Maybe the definition of elective needs to be clarified a bit?

Bob T 10-15-2017 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icenine (Post 362615)
Yeah people in your situation are mad. I can also tell you that people are going to be really pissed off paying more in taxes also. It is a game of winners and losers.
I probably paid close to 15-16k income taxes last year. I would imagine single payer would add about 5k more at the least. People below the poverty line or who don't make much in income will love single payer. Middle and upper middle class people will whine about it.

I mean if single payer was so popular we would have it by now, right?

Plus there would be wide spread rationing and waiting lists for elective surgery also. People really complain about that.

I paid over $26K in income tax last year...And will have paid neaar $20K for health insurance this year, plus all the out of pocket with the crazy high deductibles...One medication I take, use to be about $40 for a two month supply, now it is $380 for the same amount.

Another 5-10% in taxes, in exchange for healthcare...Great, sign me up.

Single payer is popular in every other civilized country...and support here is growing. Maybe it won't happen before I leave this earth, but it will someday.

donquixote99 10-15-2017 06:45 PM

Elective surgery is not just having a mole taken off. Fixing a totally blown knee is elective surgery. A blown knee won't kill you. You could fix the knee now, in 6 months, or never. When is a choice. Somebody's choice....

Changing the way the doctors and hospitals are paid does have big implications. Right now, estimates are that 1/4 to 1/3 of medical procedures done in the US are unnecessary. But the providers get paid per procedure. This is not only expensive, it is harmful to patients. Things go wrong sometimes when procedures are done.

Of course, if one goes to a managed care system where the providers get paid the same whether they do procedures or not, the incentive becomes to not do them, and people who need care may have a hard time getting it. This is where you get the long waiting times and stuff. Some say the solution is to 'pay for outcomes,' but that gets complex.

barbara 10-15-2017 06:57 PM

I think those 'long waiting times' are mostly a myth perpetuated by those opposed to single payer/universal health care.

The fact is, every system has long wait times and short wait times depending on the situation.

I have health care insurance through my employer and it is the most comprehensive and quality health care insurance in my area. A few years back I waited close to eight months for gall bladder surgery. On the other hand, my cancer was diagnosed on a Monday and I was in surgery before the end of the week.

whell 10-16-2017 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 362622)
Elective surgery is not just having a mole taken off. Fixing a totally blown knee is elective surgery. A blown knee won't kill you. You could fix the knee now, in 6 months, or never. When is a choice. Somebody's choice....

Changing the way the doctors and hospitals are paid does have big implications. Right now, estimates are that 1/4 to 1/3 of medical procedures done in the US are unnecessary. But the providers get paid per procedure. This is not only expensive, it is harmful to patients. Things go wrong sometimes when procedures are done.

Of course, if one goes to a managed care system where the providers get paid the same whether they do procedures or not, the incentive becomes to not do them, and people who need care may have a hard time getting it. This is where you get the long waiting times and stuff. Some say the solution is to 'pay for outcomes,' but that gets complex.

I've said this before, and its not complex. The groundwork is being laid for transition to this model. It won't be a fast transition and there will be some resistance from the physician community.

Oerets 10-16-2017 08:10 AM

The Insurance and Pharmaceutical industries are guaranteed a profit. So little in the way of incentive to control costs. Along with Medical practitioners now being more and more taken over by big Insurance and Hospitals corporations. This has been a book of blank checks. Ever increasing funds for profit they have put to use.
Just in the duplication in personal that would be eliminated if a single payer system were to be implemented alone would be a savings. But for the horror of massive layoffs.
With the looming tax cuts and the cuts to the ACA announced it is going to be a long period of suffering for most of the US in need of care. I believe the GOP plan is to bankrupt the country in order to rid the country of perceived so called "entitlement" benefits.



Barney

MrPots 10-16-2017 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oerets (Post 362633)
The Insurance and Pharmaceutical industries are guaranteed a profit. So little in the way of incentive to control costs. Along with Medical practitioners now being more and more taken over by big Insurance and Hospitals corporations. This has been a book of blank checks. Ever increasing funds for profit they have put to use.
Just in the duplication in personal that would be eliminated if a single payer system were to be implemented alone would be a savings. But for the horror of massive layoffs.
With the looming tax cuts and the cuts to the ACA announced it is going to be a long period of suffering for most of the US in need of care. I believe the GOP plan is to bankrupt the country in order to rid the country of perceived so called "entitlement" benefits.



Barney

That's what I also suspect. A destitute country who's military consumes most of the country's largess....sorta like N.K.

CarlV 10-27-2017 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCricket (Post 362605)
It certainly seems like the insurance companies have made more than ever.
I WONDER IF THE DEMOCRATS KNEW THIS IF THEY WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO ALTER(DAMM CAPs LOCK) or replace the AHCA.

Looks like Obama did. :)

Quote:

President Trump’s decision to cancel key ObamaCare payments could be backfiring.

Trump has claimed the health-care law is “imploding,” and earlier this month he took an action seemingly aimed at that goal: cutting off subsidy payments to insurers known as cost-sharing reductions.

Democrats cried foul, calling it the biggest example yet of what they say is Trump’s “sabotage” of ObamaCare, efforts that include cutting enrollment staff and reducing advertising.

But there are inadvertent benefits of Trump’s action: Many ObamaCare enrollees are actually getting a better deal and the potential to get more generous insurance because Trump cut off the payments.

“It sounds very counterintuitive that premiums going up a lot could actually lead to many people paying less for health insurance,” said Larry Levitt, a health policy expert at the Kaiser Family Foundation. “But that is the way the math works.”

The reasons are complicated, in large part due to a quirk in the way ObamaCare’s subsidies to help people afford insurance are calculated and in the ways regulators and health plans prepared.

Before the action, state regulators and insurers anticipated that Trump would cut off the subsidy payments, which reimburse insurers for discounts to low-income people, and planned ahead.

Insurers raised premiums on one type of plan, known as “silver” plans, to compensate for the loss of the payments. Silver plans are the ones used to calculate how much of a subsidy consumers get.

If the plans are more expensive, people get a bigger subsidy. So the higher premiums lead to bigger subsidies, which consumers can now use to buy another type of plan, even a more generous “gold” plan, at a lower cost than they otherwise would have.

The result is that the majority of ObamaCare enrollees are either held harmless or actually able to buy coverage at a lower cost than if Trump had not cut off the payments.

A minority of enrollees, those who earn too much to qualify for subsidies and live in a handful of states that did not plan ahead, are going to be hit with the brunt of the premium increases.

The big loser is the federal budget, given that the government will have to pay out billions more in subsidies to compensate for the higher premiums.

Democrats had also warned that insurers could simply drop out of the ObamaCare market, leaving some people without any options at all, if Trump canceled the payments.

But that so far has not happened. Insurers largely planned ahead, and there have not been any major exits since Trump announced he would cancel the payments.

The counterintuitive benefits of Trump’s move were a key reason that a federal judge on Wednesday ruled against a collection of states suing to force Trump to keep the payments going.

The judge, appointed by President Obama, pressed the states, led by California, to show what actual harm had occurred because Trump canceled the payments.

“It seems like California is actually doing a really good job of responding to the termination of these payments in a way that is not only avoiding harm for people, but actually benefitting people,” Judge Vince Chhabria said at a hearing on the lawsuit this week.

A separate legal question is whether the payments were constitutional to begin with, given that Congress did not appropriate them. The administration cited that as a reason to cancel them, but Trump has also pointed to broader anti-ObamaCare reasons.

Some ObamaCare supporters warn that the benefits of the payments being canceled depend on consumers being knowledgeable and savvy enough to shop around and find a deal.

In practice, many consumers are confused, given the debate over repeal of the law and the surrounding frenzy, and might be hit with a premium increase because they did not realize they could find a better deal on a different plan by shopping around on healthcare.gov.

“Even despite best efforts to educate consumers, it's going to be really hard to get out the word that there are better deals out there,” said Topher Spiro, vice president for health policy at the left-leaning Center for American Progress.

“In practice, in reality, there are going to be a lot of consumers who see increased costs because of this,” he added. If people don't shop around and stick with the same plan, they could be missing out on a deal and still face a price hike.

The Trump administration has cut back on outreach funding, which experts say could depress enrollment and lead to fewer ways for consumers to get their questions answered.

David Anderson, a health policy researcher at Duke University, has argued that Democrats might actually be wise not to seek to reinstate the payments and simply let the higher subsidies give people better deals on insurance.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...ay-bolster-law


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