[Boreas]

As for our poor - why the hell do you use quotes? - there are many countries where the social safety net does a far better job of supporting those at the bottom. The social democracies of Europe, like Denmark, Sweden and Norway, do a far better job than we do.

Bullshit. One thing these countries have done, is not produce and provide entitlement lifestyles to anywhere near the extent we have. Liberalism has done more to destroy generations of peoples in this country than capitalism by a long shot. We are so distant from Denmark, Sweden and Norway in this regard that reasonable comparisons cannot be made IMO.

Yes, we are far distant from these countries but not in the way you suggest. They have things like free health care, free higher education, including a living allowance while attending, a minimum wage that shows ours for the joke it is, paid maternity and paternity leave, free day care.... You get the picture.

Frankly, in this regard, you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

Okay, argue it. Where are your facts and supporting data? As it happens, you'll be wrong but I'll wait to see what you come up with before I weigh in further.

I apply logic and reason. You go ahead and provide whatever you wish.

What you do is make unsupported claims and assertions. It may seem logical in the sense that it could have happened that way but if you had knowledge instead of just "logic" on your side you'd know that what you said isn't true.

As for child labor laws, they weren't introduced because prosperity made them feasible. They were introduced in the Great Depression so that children would stop taking jobs away from the millions of unemployed adults. The legislation that accomplished this was The Fair Labor Standards Act, passed by a Democratic Congress during the Roosevelt Administration. That's logical too and it has the added virtue of being true.

Child labor laws have always made provision for farm labor but not, interestingly for, say, a family-run machine shop. Of course, family farms are becoming pretty much a thing of the past. Living in Minnesota puts you in a position to know that.

Yes, you are correct. Not sure what your point is but you are correct.

You brought up the agricultural exceptions to child labor laws. I was merely pointing out that they were a) a notable exception to child labor laws in general and b) becoming increasingly irrelevant.

In recent years state and local governments have if anything gotten smaller because it's starved for resources. Here in California we're even to the point of shutting down police departments in smaller cities and turning the police responsibility over to county sheriff's departments. Schools are closing, waste disposal operations are being privatized, public transportation is being cut back, etc.

I'm glad you brought that up. California is a wonderful example of what I am talking about

Care to explain? Our problems aren't part of the Great Liberal Conspiracy To Destroy America. They stem from our inability to raise needed revenues because of the legacy left us by past Republican Governors but mostly because it takes a 2/3 majority to pass any revenue producing legislation. Many of the Republicans in the legislature have taken an oath to block any legislative attempts to raise taxes. Even those who haven't taken the oath vote "no" in a bloc. The result is nothing passes and the state is broke.

Under Bush federal government did grow while at the same time shedding itself as much as possible of the responsibility to govern or regulate. It instead became a haven for political cronies and utter hacks whose purpose was to cater to the wishes of the industries they were charged with regulating. Agency heads were drawn from the industries they were charged with regulating. Critical positions were awarded to people on the basis of their political connections or political ideology without the least regard for competence.

And this is changing how?, Don't get me started.

Seems you're already started...... But anyway, this is changing because under Obama the serious qualified people are back in charge. For instance, the Secretary of Education is an educator, the Secretary of Energy is a physicist and a Nobel laureate, the Secretary of Veterans' Affairs is a retired general, the EPA Administrator is a chemical engineer and career agency employee for over 20 years, the HUD Secretary had the same job in NYC, the Ag. Secretary was a longtime governor of a farm state (Iowa).

Want me to go on?

John