I am not ever setting foot in Florida again. - Page 2

bhunter · #11 07-31-2012, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal

As I recall if you feel "reasonably" threatened you can murder whoever you like.

I further think that if you watch FOX it is reasonable to fear most everyone and thing.

Even under SYG laws the defender using deadly force must still meet the following burden:

Quote:

"Stand your ground" governs U.S. federal case law in which right of self-defense is asserted against a charge of criminal homicide. The Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Beard v. U.S. (158 U.S. 550 (1895)) that a man who was "on his premises" when he came under attack and "...did not provoke the assault, and had at the time reasonable grounds to believe, and in good faith believed, that the deceased intended to take his life, or do him great bodily harm...was not obliged to retreat, nor to consider whether he could safely retreat, but was entitled to stand his ground."[2

This is federal, but most states have similar requirements. There is more to it than just how you yourself happen to feel. In the case here, it is rather clear that Roop can't meet the burden necessary to absolve him of the crime. That, together with his premeditation, will likely get him a first degree murder conviction.

I have now decided that I'm against the SYG laws on efficiency grounds because of the difficulties it poses for the prosecution and the ease with which a reasonable retreat can be ascertained.

BlueStreak · #12 07-31-2012, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhunter

The shooter is crazy. I do not believe the SYG law will protect him from prosecution.

Doesn't matter. He may very well avoid prosecution, but the notion that one can claim he/she felt threatened, kill someone and potentially get away with it is bringing the loonies out of the woodwork. This is not the first case and it won't be the last.

A man was shot to death, heck he was still being shot after death.......for selling steaks, BH. Correct me if I am mistaken, but even with the "No Tresspassing" signs, I think it is still generally expected that the landowner give warning before shooting.

BlueStreak · #13 07-31-2012, 06:32 AM

My oldest Brother is an NRA Member. He's always been very responsible with his weapons, but sadly, we're finding that his paranoia is getting unbearable. He won't even come to visit us in Virginia anymore because..."...that place has too damn many monkeys and they're always up to no good." The last time he came to visit, he insisted on "carrying" everywhere we went. He slept with a loaded gun under the bed........

At that time, I had a house in a beautiful neighborhood. (Just a few blocks from Rep. Bobby Scott and his family.) The whole thing was totally ridiculous and unnecessary.

(BTW, I am not alledging that the NRA is racist, but my crazy brother definitely is.)

Dave

piece-itpete · #14 07-31-2012, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow

You won't read about this one in The Armed Citizen section of the American Rifleman, the monthly NRA magazine. However, you can rest assure that the NRA will fight to ensure that gun laws continue to enable such deranged @ssholes to carry firearms.

For the record, I was an NRA member for several decades, taught NRA Hunter Safety, and earned a NRA Distinguished Expert in smallbore rifle. I have no use for the organization any more, other than to visit their awesome museum in Fairfax, VA.

One down Finn, many, many, many more to go.

Assuming this is legal of course. Otherwise we can burn the strawman.

Pete

beej · #15 07-31-2012, 11:34 AM

My issue with the NRA is not the membership. Based onthe the polls I've seen, the NRA membership, per se, is not the problem. Yes, of course, they can be influenced like any other human being can be influenced. My issue with the NRA is Wayne LaPierre and his tactics.

bhunter · #16 07-31-2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Doesn't matter. He may very well avoid prosecution, but the notion that one can claim he/she felt threatened, kill someone and potentially get away with it is bringing the loonies out of the woodwork. This is not the first case and it won't be the last.

A man was shot to death, heck he was still being shot after death.......for selling steaks, BH. Correct me if I am mistaken, but even with the "No Tresspassing" signs, I think it is still generally expected that the landowner give warning before shooting.

Perhaps, the loonies are listening to the misrepresentation of the the SYG laws perpetuated by those that oppose it.

A no tresspassing sign provides little cover for the use of deadly force AFAIK. Remember that it is not merely the thoughts of the shooter, but the reasonableness of those thoughts given the circumstances. Shooting someone for only being physically on one's property can't be contrued as requiring the use of deadly force by reasonable people.

Generally, I'm not in favor of the SYG laws because of the likelihood of inadequate interpretation of the laws by your loonies and the inefficiency of prosecutors having to deal with defendants making the erroneous SYG claim.

finnbow · #17 07-31-2012, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhunter

Generally, I'm not in favor of the SYG laws because of the likelihood of inadequate interpretation of the laws by your loonies and the inefficiency of prosecutors having to deal with defendants making the erroneous SYG claim.

That's a diplomatic way of taking issue with the GOP and the NRA. They deserve worse IMHO.

bhunter · #18 07-31-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

My oldest Brother is an NRA Member. He's always been very responsible with his weapons, but sadly, we're finding that his paranoia is getting unbearable. He won't even come to visit us in Virginia anymore because..."...that place has too damn many monkeys and they're always up to no good." The last time he came to visit, he insisted on "carrying" everywhere we went. He slept with a loaded gun under the bed........

At that time, I had a house in a beautiful neighborhood. (Just a few blocks from Rep. Bobby Scott and his family.) The whole thing was totally ridiculous and unnecessary.

(BTW, I am not alledging that the NRA is racist, but my crazy brother definitely is.)

Dave

It might be good for your health that he no longer visits Virginia. Despite my position wrt opinions on the cause for the plight of minorities, I abhor being around racists. That abhorrence would be magnified if they were also vocal and packing.

piece-itpete · #19 08-01-2012, 08:17 AM

A no trespassing sign is supposed to mean something.

Anyone ever sell door to door? He didn't deserve to be shot for it, but I wouldn't have ignored them. Nuts.

Pete

BlueStreak · #20 08-01-2012, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

A no trespassing sign is supposed to mean something.

Anyone ever sell door to door? He didn't deserve to be shot for it, but I wouldn't have ignored them. Nuts.

Pete

Oh, I have been know to treat door-to-door solicitors like absolute crap......unless she she nice tits, of course. Then I usually buying it....whatever it is.

At any rate, telling them "No Thanks" and shutting the door is sufficient for me.
Blowing thier brains out is a bit much.

Dave