Do you see the U.S. being headed for a second civil war?

[icenine]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

We're on the same page, Ice. Marjorie Taylor Greene wants her big divorce, enabled by 2nd Amendment methods. But she'd be sorry if it turned out to be a big divorce from all the taxes the blue states are pouring into the red States. She somehow thinks she's going to get bunches of support payments.

Democracy is a fragile thing. If you have 40% of the American people who believe that Biden stole the election then the the Constitution is no more than a pinyata waiting to be cudgeled to death.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by icenine

Democracy is a fragile thing. If you have 40% of the American people who believe that Biden stole the election then the the Constitution is no more than a pinyata waiting to be cudgeled to death.

And we have one political party seeking to wrap their fingers around that cudgel.

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by icenine

I think it will not be a civil war but a white supremacy insurgency.
Sort of like the IRA, people blowing up things.

My impression is that the red states think they will somehow end up controlling the Federal Government, and things like the Social Safety net i.e. Medicare, Social Security, Tricare and the Veteran Administration will be theirs to run and reward those that support them.

Stopping this process would probably save the United States in the long run.

If I was a Democratic president and red states decided to nullify the mid-terms in 2022 I would cut off Social Security payments to the citizens of those states. I might keep Medicare payments going for a while. It might wake some people up. And if you were Joe Biden you might have to ignore a Supreme Court ruling on the basis that the court was not legitmate because of GOP gerrymandering and Mitch McConnel's radicalism.

In other words a President might have to become an autocrat just to save the more or less "democratic Union' we have had since 1776.

The Trump base thinks that the worst thing that can happen is brown people crossing our
border in order to live here, not understanding that the real threat isn't people escaping Latin American governments but rather our government becoming more and more like those governments in Latin America that immigrants are trying to escape.

That is the problem when a political party abandons the concept of a "loyal opposition".

Originally Posted by donquixote99

We're on the same page, Ice. Marjorie Taylor Greene wants her big divorce, enabled by 2nd Amendment methods. But she'd be sorry if it turned out to be a big divorce from all the taxes the blue states are pouring into the red States. She somehow thinks she's going to get bunches of support payments.

I think the key would lay in electoral college reform, or it's abandonment.

This idea of defunding the most vulnerable people in the red states is nothing short of fascism, akin to social eugenics. So the old, the weak are targeted.

You think the Supremists would learn a lesson from that ? They might get more angry without even making a connection to their own behavior being the so-called 'cause'.

Or they might respect the decision to kill off the lame. Join in some kind of secret society with the people from this 'think tank'.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

This idea of defunding the most vulnerable people in the red states is nothing short of fascism, akin to social eugenics. So the old, the weak are targeted.

Well put!

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Well put!

Speaking of eugenics, can you imagine why MTG imagines hordes of Democrats clamoring to move to red states after the 'divorce?' I suspect 'food as a weapon' is in her alleged mind....

[icenine]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

I think the key would lay in electoral college reform, or it's abandonment.

This idea of defunding the most vulnerable people in the red states is nothing short of fascism, akin to social eugenics. So the old, the weak are targeted.

You think the Supremists would learn a lesson from that ? They might get more angry without even making a connection to their own behavior being the so-called 'cause'.

Or they might respect the decision to kill off the lame. Join in some kind of secret society with the people from this 'think tank'.

Yeah it would be a pretty bad thing. However, red states nullifying elections would basically destroy America. And would make the things you worry about inevitable. My point was if there is no loyal opposition extreme measures might be proposed if an illegitimate government was about to threaten the whole democratic experiment.

The Supreme Court isn't powerful. It can't enforce its decisions. By ignoring precedent it can push a President into a corner. The power of the court comes from Presidents of both parties enforcing and abiding its decisions. All it takes is one President...Trump, Biden, or whoever, to ignore it if they thought a decision was an existential threat to American democracy. Then it's over for that institution. That is why what they are doing re:abortion in Texas is very dangerous.

Georgia is actually decreasing polling stations and at the same time denying people the right to drink water while forcing those same voters to wait hours in voting lines. I would call that fascism that is actually codified by Georgia state law. If the Republican Senators and their colleagues Mansion and Sinema don't want to outlaw that what is America supposed to to do?
Just sit back and let it happen? What does America do if Georgian Republican voting officials don't count the legitimate vote and decide to throw the election to a candidate that really didn't win?

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by icenine

Yeah it would be a pretty bad thing. However, red states nullifying elections would basically destroy America. And would make the things you worry about inevitable. My point was if there is no loyal opposition extreme measures might be proposed if an illegitimate government was about to threaten the whole democratic experiment.

The Supreme Court isn't powerful. It can't enforce its decisions. By ignoring precedent it can push a President into a corner. The power of the court comes from Presidents of both parties enforcing and abiding its decisions. All it takes is one President...Trump, Biden, or whoever, to ignore it if they thought a decision was an existential threat to American democracy. Then it's over for that institution. That is why what they are doing re:abortion in Texas is very dangerous.

Georgia is actually decreasing polling stations and at the same time denying people the right to drink water while forcing those same voters to wait hours in voting lines. I would call that fascism that is actually codified by Georgia state law. If the Republican Senators and their colleagues Mansion and Sinema don't want to outlaw that what is America supposed to to do?
Just sit back and let it happen? What does America do if Georgian Republican voting officials don't count the legitimate vote and decide to throw the election to candidate that really didn't win?

I see what you guys mean about red states being over-represented, and being in a position to slip 'operatives' into the political machine.

Many of them move into a red state just to become politicians. And they can buy votes with campaign promises, and Federal Relief money.

I don't see it as a threat to American democracy, because the idea we live in a democratic society is a hoax. We never have, and we never will. It's an illusion that is transforming into something else at the present time.

Our founding fathers were a small number of rich white guys who didn't want to pay their taxes. Then they had to generate revenue to stay in power, went after the moonshiners, the first task of the standing army. Because the top dogs always have to appear morally righteous. Then all the citizens had to start paying taxes.

Blah, blah pay your taxes, accept the idea that the poor get a few drippings from the hideous machine.

I'll stop now, have a tendency to ramble.

[Dondilion]

Hoax? Essentially because it allows for minority rule via the electoral college?

[icenine]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

I see what you guys mean about red states being over-represented, and being in a position to slip 'operatives' into the political machine.

Many of them move into a red state just to become politicians. And they can buy votes with campaign promises, and Federal Relief money.

I don't see it as a threat to American democracy, because the idea we live in a democratic society is a hoax. We never have, and we never will. It's an illusion that is transforming into something else at the present time.

Our founding fathers were a small number of rich white guys who didn't want to pay their taxes. Then they had to generate revenue to stay in power, went after the moonshiners, the first task of the standing army. Because the top dogs always have to appear morally righteous. Then all the citizens had to start paying taxes.

Blah, blah pay your taxes, accept the idea that the poor get a few drippings from the hideous machine.

I'll stop now, have a tendency to ramble.

That’s exactly what Putin and other autocrats want their people to believe: the system sucks anyway so just accept my plutocracy. That’s the same thing going on here when Trump said the system is rigged; same thing the Right here in the USA by saying government doesn’t work…even exporting it to Canadian truckers.
The system isn’t perfect but it does work and we can improve it.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by icenine

That’s exactly what Putin and other autocrats want their people to believe: the system sucks anyway so just accept my plutocracy. That’s the same thing going on here when Trump said the system is rigged; same thing the Right here in the USA by saying government doesn’t work…even exporting it to Canadian truckers.
The system isn’t perfect but it does work and we can improve it.

Like all systems, ours is rigged on many levels. Neither party is interested in messing with how we elect the president as far altering the Constitution is concerned.