Putin Invades the Ukraine

[donquixote99]

What is clear exactly? You are very vague here.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

What is clear exactly? You are very vague here.

That Ukraine is on the verge of losing the Donbas despite attempts to soften this picture. Notice the use of evacuation instead of surrender with respect to Mariupol.

The linked New York Times article does not make sense. The US is handing over billions of dollars worth of equipment to an army that is refusing to supply intelligence to the US.

It appears to me an attempt to throw Ukraine under the bus.
How to explain to politicians and the general public the lost of the Donbas and other areas in the east of Ukraine?

[donquixote99]

The explanation is that the Russians are taking it as a result of an unjustifiable, criminal invasion. Your question is like asking a murder victim why they dropped dead after they were shot.

[Oerets]

Most of the world is surprised that Ukraine is still in the fight. Not completely overrun in the first few days.
Secretly if truthful most countries sending in supplies and support would of accepted reluctantly this outcome.
As long as Putin is in control Russia will continue and one day soon have control over the whole country. Bankrupting countries and sending the world into a recession maybe even into a depression.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The linked New York Times article does not make sense. The US is handing over billions of dollars worth of equipment to an army that is refusing to supply intelligence to the US.

With the exception of the other "Five Eyes" countries (Canada, UK, New Zealand, Australia), America has a limited relationship will all other countries with respect to sharing intelligence. Just look at Israel - we give them ~$4 billion a year in military aid and they don't fully share intelligence with us. Hell, they even spy on us (Jonathan Pollard) and inappropriately engage in our electoral politics (Bibi came here to campaign for Trump).

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by finnbow

With the exception of the other "Five Eyes" countries (Canada, UK, New Zealand, Australia), America has a limited relationship will all other countries with respect to sharing intelligence. Just look at Israel - we give them ~$4 billion a year in military aid and they don't fully share intelligence with us. Hell, they even spy on us (Jonathan Pollard) and inappropriately engage in our electoral politics (Bibi came here to campaign for Trump).

Big difference. US from 2014 had tremendous influence on the formation and membership of Ukraine's military and government. As a matter of fact Nuland was caught selecting critical members of the first post Maiden government. Israel has had several decades to solidify its independence and run rings around America admins, especially after Golda Meir.

BTW I believe Israel still refuses to give permission for the use of its iron dome.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Big difference. US from 2014 had tremendous influence on the formation and membership of Ukraine's military and government. As a matter of fact Nuland was caught selecting critical members of the first post Maiden government. Israel has had several decades to solidify its independence and run rings around America admins, especially after Golda Meir.

BTW I believe Israel still refuses to give permission for the use of its iron dome.

Let's cut to the chase. Do you believe that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine is, to the slightest degree, justified?

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Oerets

As long as Putin is in control Russia will continue and one day soon have control over the whole country. Bankrupting countries and sending the world into a recession maybe even into a depression.

Russia will not any day soon be able to get control of the whole country.

1) It does not have the manpower.
2) The inhabitants of the western regions are fiercely anti-Russians
3) Poland with its very capable military would pre-emptively seize large parts of the west.

To be precise it is the imposition of sanctions that has caused significant economic disruptions. Even after careful risk assessment by technocrats advising against such moves, politicians decide to proceed with many of the sanctions even doubling down at times when it becomes obvious who the sanctions are hurting most.

Additionally, there are some disingenuous games being played especially in the energy sector.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Let's cut to the chase. Do you believe that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine is, to the slightest degree, justified?

??

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Let's cut to the chase. Do you believe that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine is, to the slightest degree, justified?

Not justified. I believe it is tied to denying Ukraine the tremendous economic potential of the Donbas.