Is The Keystone Pipeline Dead?

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by MrPots

Thank you.

No problemo, Pots.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

I disagree Rob. Our oil consumption is continuing to diminish and I predict that electric cars/self driving cars are in our near future, especially in metropolitan areas. So why take a risk? If our demand for oil goes up, we can always revisit this resource. Chances are that due to depressed crude oil prices, it is not economically viable to transport via rail. Canada can also institute better safety standards for their rail freight system/tracks.

PS: I am truly surprised by the number of Nissan Leaf EV's on I-680 that I use to commute daily. Tesla's too but that's not an affordable car but is locally made.

It was an American owned and operated train (allowed onto Canadian tracks) that destroyed the center of Lac Megantic in Quebec. Recent rait accidents have all been inside the U.S. Having traveled bt train in both countries I find the tracks are in better shape in Canada. Economics aside they are still shipping oil by train, especially from North Dakota.

Having worked with computers since 1963 the idea of a self driving car scares the chit out of me.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by merrylander

It was an American owned and operated train (allowed onto Canadian tracks) that destroyed the center of Lac Megantic in Quebec. Recent rait accidents have all been inside the U.S. Having traveled bt train in both countries I find the tracks are in better shape in Canada. Economics aside they are still shipping oil by train, especially from North Dakota.

Having worked with computers since 1963 the idea of a self driving car scares the chit out of me.

It's about time tracks got upgraded in this country. I travel by Amtrak occasionally and can attest to the poor track conditions and the snails pace trains have to travel.

As to self driving cars (I too am a techie) the technology is quite fascinating not to mention that it could be very beneficial in managing traffic. Accordion Effect, unnecessary lane changes etc. which contribute to traffic snarls can be theoretically eliminated. How well the on-board computers will perform will be determined by evolving technology rather than reliability of computers. For that matter installing redundant control systems will not be very expensive in this day and age.

Then again I am in the Tesla, Apple and Google arena and if these companies join hands (very likely), nothing will surprise me. Then again I am prejudiced and have high hopes for high tech. I truly believe that electric self driving cars are in our near future especially here in the Bay Area and probably in LA basin and Seattle.

[merrylander]

It is not the reliability of the computers but that of the folks writing the code that worries me.

Ha, the big thing out silicon valley way is AI. curious to see how they plan on replicating the Soul.

I see there were two more oil / ethanol train wrecks in Wisconsin, wonder how happy all those environmentalists are about that?

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

Keystone pipeline is a very high risk for scant rewards only benefiting Canada in the long run. A spill can become an environmental disaster for the states the pipeline is running through.

Looking at this map, I don't get why TransCanada doesn't build their pipeline alongside the existing one and avoid the Ogallala aquifer altogether.

[merrylander]

I think if you were to find a link to the Athabaska tar sands you would find that Petro Canada has a very minor part in it, most of the companies are American and European. Now the greenies want an end to oil trains - what idiots.

Ah to hell with it all as I no longer give a damn about pipelines or much of anything else.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by merrylander

I think if you were to find a link to the Athabaska tar sands you would find that Petro Canada has a very minor part in it, most of the companies are American and European. Now the greenies want an end to oil trains - what idiots.

Ah to hell with it all as I no longer give a damn about pipelines or much of anything else.

Rob, future is in electric cars. Tesla is building a huge facility outside of Reno, NV specifically to build Li-ion batteries. With energy conversion rate of less than 50% with internal combustion engines and electric at 90%+, why invest money or resources in a resource whose demand is diminishing.

This is an emerging technology, extremely fuel efficient and negligible pollution except from the power generating plants.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

Rob, future is in electric cars. Tesla is building a huge facility outside of Reno, NV specifically to build Li-ion batteries. With energy conversion rate of less than 50% with internal combustion engines and electric at 90%+, why invest money or resources in a resource whose demand is diminishing.

This is an emerging technology, extremely fuel efficient and negligible pollution except from the power generating plants.

I think your analysis fails to account for the energy conversion efficiency for generating the electricity at the plant (~40% with oil or coal) and energy losses for transmission and distribution (~6%).

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I think your analysis fails to account for the energy conversion efficiency for generating the electricity at the plant (~40% with oil or coal) and energy losses for transmission and distribution (~6%).

Thanks, I will look into it. But even if I use your 40% number this does not account downstream energy capture from waste streams. In internal combustion engines, wasted energy simply goes out the exhaust pipe and is dissipated by the radiator.

[Boreas]

Just as there is energy consumption in the generation of electricity, there is energy consumption in refining gasoline. The question is the overall "carbon footprint" of each set of processes.

Another consideration is in the use of clean renewable methods of power generation. If you have an electric car for which the electricity is generated by wind or solar, you have zero emissions at any point in the chain.

By the way, the "greenies" don't want to have the tar sands oil transported by rail instead of by pipeline. They want it left in the ground. The idea is to fight the use of this junk every step of the way.