Obama Losing Union Votes

[icenine]

This is a hotbed of pro-union radicalism Mr. Holland...you better have your flame resistant keyboad on....man I miss Richard Nixon...he was never againstthose flag-lovin pro-war hard hat guys!!! I think they were all union too btw.....

Leroy

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Or retirement benefits.

John

I know we are joking too...but it is sad how things have degraded for your average worker.

Just remember...less pay means less consumption less consumption means slower economic growth in the long run....'

I rememember reading once that the Japanese never got rid of their gas station attendants and their elevator operators even though everyone else was doing it...they knew the importance of those jobs as part of their society.

Companies can outsource, 401k and leverage..but at the end of the day if the society ends up not being able to buy products enough to sustain a demand economy what have they gained by it?

[Zeke]

As most of you know, I like to distill things.

I support the concept of unions as labor should not be serfs but the tail should be unable to wag the dog, either.

A personal hero of mine -- it's on the Bucket List to meet him -- is Lee Iacocca.

Post Ford, when he joined Chrysler he found a few things after months of research:

1. They made shitty cars.
2. They had two workers NOT working (retired) for every person that did.
3. 35 years ago, that worked out to adding ~$1K to every car produced.

He "negotiated" with the union by saying (paraphrased) "I have thousands of jobs at $17 per hour. I don't have ANY at $20. I'll call you in the morning."

He had a gun to union's head. If they did not capitulate, it was receivership.

It's coming to that in many places now.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Zeke

As most of you know, I like to distill things.

I support the concept of unions as labor should not be serfs but the tail should be unable to wag the dog, either.

A personal hero of mine -- it's on the Bucket List to meet him -- is Lee Iacocca.

Post Ford, when he joined Chrysler he found a few things after months of research:

1. They made shitty cars.
2. They had two workers NOT working (retired) for every person that did.
3. 35 years ago, that worked out to adding ~$1K to every car produced.

He "negotiated" with the union by saying (paraphrased) "I have thousands of jobs at $17 per hour. I don't have ANY at $20. I'll call you in the morning."

He had a gun to union's head. If they did not capitulate, it was receivership.

It's coming to that in many places now.

Me too. Read his books. Interesting guy.

One thing you never hear about when people rant about the UAW......

Is how TOTALLY spineless so many management teams were over the years.
Contract after contract just signed with no regard for the long term future, in the name of avoiding a strike.

I believe Lee made that point in one of his books. IIRC, "Behind every out of control, belligerant union is a management team with no balls." (Paraphrased)

Notice there were no bailouts of US Steel, even more heavily unionized than the auto industry.
When the union pushed too hard, they simply idled the plant and told the others they were next, until the union cooled it's jets. Sure, we lost a lot of old mills that way, but the industry is much stronger now (Financially speaking.). Is USS in bankruptcy? Begging for bailouts?---Nope. But, they are still union.

http://www.ussteel.com/uss/portal/ho...vZ0FBIS9nQSEh/

Dave

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by icenine

This is a hotbed of pro-union radicalism Mr. Holland...you better have your flame resistant keyboad on....man I miss Richard Nixon...he was never againstthose flag-lovin pro-war hard hat guys!!! I think they were all union too btw.....

Leroy

I don't have a problem with the union guys, I just choose not to be one. On a side note, when the economy took a real shit in 2009 (3 months after I bought my house BTW), our company went from 35 guys in the shop down to 8. I kept my job because of my value to the company, not because of seniority. Had we been a union shop I would have been one of the other 27. BTW, my employer does match my 401K at 50 cents on the dollar so it isn't like I don't have any retirement benefits. They also pay premiums on medical, dental, and vision for the whole family as well as a free life insurance policy, safety bonuses, etc. I am not envious or angry at the union guys, just don't happen to be one.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Zeke

As most of you know, I like to distill things.

I support the concept of unions as labor should not be serfs but the tail should be unable to wag the dog, either.

A personal hero of mine -- it's on the Bucket List to meet him -- is Lee Iacocca.

Post Ford, when he joined Chrysler he found a few things after months of research:

1. They made shitty cars.
2. They had two workers NOT working (retired) for every person that did.
3. 35 years ago, that worked out to adding ~$1K to every car produced.

He "negotiated" with the union by saying (paraphrased) "I have thousands of jobs at $17 per hour. I don't have ANY at $20. I'll call you in the morning."

He had a gun to union's head. If they did not capitulate, it was receivership.

It's coming to that in many places now.

55 years ago whenever Chrysler did a model changeover the shut down the line for two months and sent everyone home except the guys setting up for the new model. Buddy of mine worked there, it wass unpaid vacation.

[thx338]

Guess the union guys are tired of being robbed too. The dems pi**ed away their dues last election and Someone's got to pay. Terrible thing when reality knocks.

[icenine]

I think most union guys right now are probably happy just to have a job....my dues are about $40 bucks a month...shit you cannot even buy a carton of Marlboro reds for that....

[Zeke]

Yet folks always manage to find the bucks.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Yet folks always manage to find the bucks.

For the unions or the smokes? lol i guess many think both are bad..