Does Permaculture Lead to Anarchism

[djv8ga]

Of course it does.
http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/pe...ture-anarchism Start @ the 13.50 mark.

[bobabode]

Make that desert bloom, you old anarchist.

[finnbow]

Lay off the peyote, DJ.

[donquixote99]

The bullet list on the above web page tells the story by itself:

Why Permaculture leads to anarchy

It leads to real solutions, often that are illegal but work
Ethics based and concerned with “people care”
Teaches the practice of currency creation and private banking
It is a design science which causes you to question everything
No room for bureaucracy, a tree doesn’t’ care about your title
A meritocracy in other words those that get shit done succeed
It is about rewilding humans to live with nature vs. opposing it
Promotes community interdependence vs system and centralized dependence
Focuses on real wealth above persevered wealth
Creates wealth that is hard if not impossible to tax
Leads naturally to commerce at a local level
Can not be controlled, policed, slowed down or stopped by the oligarchy

Final thoughts on what real freedom is and why morality is required for it

This not-self-evident set of 'truths' points to a subculture that is quite stuck on itself, convinced they are special people with uniquely excellent values and customs. Thus, the writer misses that his last point actually says why 'real freedom' (or anarchy, I suppose) is not remotely possible for human cultures.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The bullet list on the above web page tells the story by itself:



This not-self-evident set of 'truths' points to a subculture that is quite stuck on itself, convinced they are special people with uniquely excellent values and customs. Thus, the writer misses that his last point actually says why 'real freedom' (or anarchy, I suppose) is not remotely possible for human cultures.

A love of earth is sufficient. This leads to non polluting behavior.
No need for heavy contortionist philosophy.

[donquixote99]

Comments on 'Why Permaculture leads to anarchy'

It leads to real solutions, often that are illegal but work

Solutions that work are good, but getting busted can cancel that. Resist the temptation to make 'illegal' a desired thing in itself.

Ethics based and concerned with “people care”

Good. But this is a cultural feature NOT implied by the agricultural science of permaculture (a fact true of most of this list, I'd say.)

Teaches the practice of currency creation and private banking

See 'illegal,' above. Culture, not permaculture.

It is a design science which causes you to question everything

Good.

No room for bureaucracy, a tree doesn’t’ care about your title

The trees won't be the one's doing it. There will always be cops and courts and an army (nothing is more bureaucratic than an army). There will be guys working full-time as interdependence coordinators. There will be guys in charge of it all, and guys who work for them. There will be taxes to pay for it all. Even hunter-gatherers have bits of this. All agricultural societies have plenty of it.

A meritocracy in other words those that get shit done succeed

Hah! the chiselers are always with us.

It is about rewilding humans to live with nature vs. opposing it.

'Nature' is just an idea created by humans. Stick to 'what works,' and 'design science' and 'getting things done.' Myths about nature will just get in the way, and empower bureaucrats and chiselers.

Promotes community interdependence vs system and centralized dependence

Good. Whatever works. But community interdependence is a system.

Focuses on real wealth above persevered wealth

You mean Buckminster Fuller's definition of wealth, measured by counting days into the future you can live on what you've got? Isn't one kind of that as real as another?

Creates wealth that is hard if not impossible to tax

Ha ha ha. If you ever have enough wealth to draw attention, you'll see.

Leads naturally to commerce at a local level

Which leads naturally to more bigger and less local commerce, when it works.

Can not be controlled, policed, slowed down or stopped by the oligarchy

Ha ha ha. Avoid drawing attention as much as you can. Test this notion and you'll be sorry.

Final thoughts on what real freedom is and why morality is required for it

Read your Dostoyevsky.

[djv8ga]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Make that desert bloom, you old anarchist.

Loading up a truck load of Bush Cherries right now.

[djv8ga]

[QUOTE=donquixote99;286750]Comments on
Ethics based and concerned with “people care”

Good. But this is a cultural feature NOT implied by the agricultural science of permaculture (a fact true of most of this list, I'd say.)

Teaches the practice of currency creation and private banking

See 'illegal,' above. Culture, not permaculture.

Just FYI before I comment on the rest when I get back from being an Anarchist.
The three ethics of permaculture are:

1.Care of the Earth, 2. Care of people, and 3. Set limits to consumption and reproduction, and redistribute surplus to the benefit of the Earth and people. Click on the link for the reasons. You are mistaking when you call permaculture an agriculture science. It is a design.
http://www.permaculture.org/permaculture-ethics/

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

Loading up a truck load of Bush Cherries right now.

To answer your original question. Thoughtful stewardship of the land fosters interdependency and community, you neo-Granger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Na...s_of_Husbandry

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The bullet list on the above web page tells the story by itself:



This not-self-evident set of 'truths' points to a subculture that is quite stuck on itself, convinced they are special people with uniquely excellent values and customs. Thus, the writer misses that his last point actually says why 'real freedom' (or anarchy, I suppose) is not remotely possible for human cultures.

They're human, that's the Achilles heel of any silly Utopian dream. And make no mistake, that's what this is. All it needs is a few Unicorns, a couple of rainbows and some sparkly magic dust.

Communism would have worked wonderfully, if it weren't for human nature. Remember, the ultimate goal laid out in the Communist Manifesto was......ANARCHY. How did that work out? Show me a human society that succeeded relying solely upon unenforced "morality" as its backbone. They always end up passing laws, creating law enforcement, punishing criminals, experiencing corruption, establishing common defense, taxing people to pay for it all in one form or another...............

Nope, it always comes back to the same thing........Some form of governing structure.