Ukraine Heats Up

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

I do not have a problem either, but with so many players on the ground.

In Kiev it was said that it was the government supporters who were attacking
Jews.

The Jewish issue is a powerful one not only for anti Semites but for those Israelis who want to engender migration to Israel. Soviet Jews are seen as a counter to Arabs and a counter weight to Israeli emigration. They occupy a very anti Arab anti peace sector of the Israeli populace.

I know that all too well, having spent 3 weeks in Israel (and Jordan) in November (my son works for the State Department in Tel Aviv). We went to a sushi restaurant in Haifa (lots of sushi in Israel, BTW) and we were the only non-Russians in the place from the patrons to the waitstaff to the cooks.

Here's a bit more insight on the leaflets distributed to the Jews in Donetsk. The bottom line truth remains unclear. A false flag operation by the Ukrainians is certainly not out of the question. It certainly seems to work for Putin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ws-in-donetsk/

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

As I said in my earlier post, I have no problem believing that antisemitism exists within Russian-speaking Ukrainians and in their Russian overlords.

I doubt many people would dispute the virulent ant-Semitism endemic in Russian society but that isn't the point. Russia would like to foster the perception that Russian anti-Semitism perished along with the Soviet Union, just as repression of the Orthodox Church did. Allowing their operatives in Eastern Ukraine to make such a nakedly anti-Semitic pronouncement is not only counter to that narrative but vividly evocative of Hitler's Jewish laws. In my opinion, Putin would've strangled such an idea in the cradle.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I doubt many people would dispute the virulent ant-Semitism endemic in Russian society but that isn't the point. Russia would like to foster the perception that Russian anti-Semitism perished along with the Soviet Union, just as repression of the Orthodox Church did. Allowing their operatives in Eastern Ukraine to make such a nakedly anti-Semitic pronouncement is not only counter to that narrative but vividly evocative of Hitler's Jewish laws. In my opinion, Putin would've strangled such an idea in the cradle.

John

I suppose it depends upon how much control he exerts over the separatists. He insists that he has none. Zero. Yet, he is somehow able to control them acting out their antisemitic tendencies? If you read my link above, the leaflet wants the Jews to register such that they can be protected from the western Ukrainians. I'm unconvinced about the true source of the leaflets, as I am about all internal claims made by either Russia, the separatists or the western Ukrainians.

Here's an interesting take on Russia's invasion via subterfuge. Western Ukrainians may be fighting fire (subterfuge) with fire.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...815_story.html

[piece-itpete]

That's a great article Finn. Precious few believe this is nothing but Russias' doing.

It would be easy to dismiss the pamphlet out of hand, but for Russia and their Ukrainian supporters saying 'saboteur' about every little thing.

Pete

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

That's a great article Finn. Precious few believe this is nothing but Russias' doing.

That's like saying that the Maidan coup is "nothing but America's doing". There's a grain of truth in both statements but neither paints a useful picture.

John

[Dondilion]

It is obvious that Ukraine will devolve in some type of Balkan model. The regions are too polarized. Russia has been promoting regionalism for a long
time but this was rejected.
I guess events on the ground have made it obvious that
no central government can be effective unless it yields to granting autonomy.

[piece-itpete]

Anyone still watching the Vice segments? The Ukraine counterterrorism and attempts to reinforce the eastern border are full of fail. The central government is too weak and disorganized to do anything effective. Putin is cunning. And winning. Might makes right?

Pete

[Bigerik]

Might makes right if you are a republican.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Anyone still watching the Vice segments? The Ukraine counterterrorism and attempts to reinforce the eastern border are full of fail. The central government is too weak and disorganized to do anything effective. Putin is cunning. And winning. Might makes right?

Pete

counterterrorism?
Maidan?

[Boreas]

I take no pleasure in saying this but it looks like we (the west but mostly the US) is going to get our ass handed to us on this one. And it needs to happen, IMO, just as it needs to happen in Syria. We are backing neo-fascists in the first instance and al Qaeda-affiliated terrorists in the second. What the hell are we playing at?

John