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11-30-2016, 12:04 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
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[QUOTE=BlueStreak;340372]
Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Can he keep this game up, Mike?
Remember what you said about "Santa Claus politics".
There are MILLIONS who want their high paying union jobs back. Now more than ever, they are going to be peeking under the tree and waiting for Donnie Claus to bring the presents.
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As stated earlier, the State estimates it will lose $108MM per year in income if Carrier moves out. If the State and the Feds can strike a deal where the state retains some of that income in exchange for Carrier staying, its likely a good deal for everyone. That would not be "Santa Claus" politics. That would be a reasonable investment.
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11-30-2016, 12:08 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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[QUOTE=BlueStreak;340378]
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbara
Exactly. What's the old adage? "A crappy job is better than no job.". That has been used time and again to push people down, work them harder for less.
More to come.
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This is the legacy of the Obama years: where the weak job recovery replaced higher paying jobs with lower paying jobs. To the extent that those higher paying jobs left with their employers because those employers lacked confidence in the economic environment in the US, maybe a deal like this is a reversal of the trend. We'll need to wait and see.
However, if 10% of United Technologies is business with the Federal Govt', that's a hell of a big stick to use in a negotiation process.
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11-30-2016, 12:08 PM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,857
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[QUOTE=whell;340381]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
As stated earlier, the State estimates it will lose $108MM per year in income if Carrier moves out. If the State and the Feds can strike a deal where the state retains some of that income in exchange for Carrier staying, its likely a good deal for everyone. That would not be "Santa Claus" politics. That would be a reasonable investment.
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Then why didn't Pence do what needed to be done already to keep them there, rather than having to give away the store to fulfill a Trump campaign promise. Whatever Trump/Pence did does nothing to change the underlying dynamic of manufacturing jobs going overseas, though the publicity stunt seems to have suckered you in completely. This isn't much different than cities and states paying billions to keep sports teams.
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As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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11-30-2016, 12:09 PM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
As stated earlier, the State estimates it will lose $108MM per year in income if Carrier moves out. If the State and the Feds can strike a deal where the state retains some of that income in exchange for Carrier staying, its likely a good deal for everyone. That would not be "Santa Claus" politics. That would be a reasonable investment.
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Except for the picking winners and losers part.
What is in the $108 figure? Who gets what parts of it?
Who pays the kickback? Is this to be an annual kickback, since it corresponds to the annual estimated benefits you cite?
Since 'we're going to Mexico' blackmail seems to work, what's to stop them for asking for more next time? I can see the politicians going for MORE than $108 million if really pressed. After all, it's not their money.
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If you Love Liberty, you must Hate Trump!
Last edited by donquixote99; 11-30-2016 at 12:12 PM.
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11-30-2016, 12:13 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
LMAO! Ethics? If they had any "ethics", the move never would have been announced in the first place. Ethics don't have a fucking thing to do with corporate deeds.
Ethics my ass. I think you got closer to the truth when you said, "...the US government would take it's business elsewhere.".
There's the arm twisting I was looking for.
Thanks.
Moreover, Where was this generous state tax break with Pence as governor? Or was that already in the works BEFORE Trump could grab credit? Why did they wait until after the election?
Public Relations stunt.
Thanks again.
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Your comments on ethics are a product of your own prejudices. Are there unethical business folks out there? Sure. But I don't think lack of ethics has any bearing in this case. Debate on that is outside the scope of this thread anyway.
The "generous state tax break with Pence as governor" may have been there, but as the article states, it was only part of the deal. Pence would not have been able to put together the same deal on this own - particularly leveraging the gov't contracts that Carrier's parent company has, or making "promises" about future tax or trade policy.
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11-30-2016, 12:14 PM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Your comments on ethics are a product of your own prejudices. Are there unethical business folks out there? Sure. But I don't think lack of ethics has any bearing in this case. Debate on that is outside the scope of this thread anyway.
The "generous state tax break with Pence as governor" may have been there, but as the article states, it was only part of the deal. Pence would not have been able to put together the same deal on this own - particularly leveraging the gov't contracts that Carrier's parent company has, or making "promises" about future tax or trade policy.
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Which would be illegal in public sector contracting, BTW.
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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11-30-2016, 06:13 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 846
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I heard on NPR that of 1400 jobs that were potentially lost this "deal" would keep about 900 to 1000 employed. doesn't even qualify as a drop in the bucket.
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11-30-2016, 06:25 PM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,857
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Unless one knows the details of this deal, judgment should be withheld. And Trump is withholding the details, though they will eventually come out when Indiana taxpayers get the bill.
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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11-30-2016, 06:27 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
Unless one knows the details of this deal, judgment should be withheld. And Trump is withholding the details, though they will eventually come out when Indiana taxpayers get the bill.
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You are right.
But Trump withholding details makes me suspicious and his business history of making out good on the deal at the expense of others is worrisome.
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11-30-2016, 06:36 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
Which would be illegal in public sector contracting, BTW.
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So would all the crap that the gov't requires contractors to do to get the business in the first place.
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