Israel has invaded Gaza...

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Perhaps if the Moslem states over there granted their Palestinian brothers citizenship over there a la 'Law of Return' there'd be a greater chance of peace, and they'd be able to leave the 'Israeli' prison of Gaza (apparently with Egyptian jailers).

Maybe Israel wouldn't be their jailer if it wasn't attacked in 67. But they 'invaded' Gaza.

I don't think Israel is perfect, oh no no. But they were sure dealt a poor hand and they're playing with cheats and cutthroats.
Pete

How poor a hand?

They have the powerful backing of the US.
They are still building settlements despite what the US says.

They are recipient of 3b dollars US per year plus other donation from some
of the wealthiest people in the world.

The collapse of the soviets benefited them more than anyone else.

They still have a great hand.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

How poor a hand?

They have the powerful backing of the US.
They are still building settlements despite what the US says.

They are recipient of 3b dollars US per year plus other donation from some
of the wealthiest people in the world.

The collapse of the soviets benefited them more than anyone else.

They still have a great hand.

The Jews perhaps have a good hand now. But it's not the hand they were dealt...which is what pete is talking about. Israeli Jews were dealt one of the most shit hands in modern history.

So, I guess I'm just gonna have to say this one more time...the Jews of Europe were left hanging out to dry and twist in the wind by the rest of the world for over a decade. And at the end of the war, the rest of the world was kind enough to provide them a useless piece of scrub land surrounded by the only people on earth who hate them more than the nazis did. Who woulda thought that Jews would refuse to allow themselves to be exterminated after what they had been through in Europe. Surely not the fucking League of Nations and their Mandate for Palestine, eh?

Much to the surprise and consternation of the rest of the world, Jews rose up. Jews...can ya believe it? Jews turned shit land into a relative paradise and did it democratically. Sure...the Jews have received plenty of financial assistance...but as opposed to the poor Kuwaitis and the poor Iraqis and the poor Afghanis or the poor South Vietnamese...not once has this country or any other send a single pound of flesh and blood to fight by their side for their existence. And the Jews never expected it, or asked for it. Of course, what the Jews of Israel get, is shit for it.

So...frustrated by their refusal to die...the rest of the world has tagged the Jews as the new neighborhood bully. Tagged them as "nazis" if you can fucking believe that. Fine...just fine with me. And probably fine with them as well. Far as I'm concerned, nobody has jack shit to say about what the Jews of Israel have done or are doing to avoid another holocaust.

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And everybody hates the Jews.
- Tom Lehrer

[finnbow]

It would have been right and righteous to give the Jews a nice parcel of land in Germany. Having a bunch of bureaucrats at the UN hand it to them at the expense of the Palestinians is another issue altogether.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by finnbow

It would have been right and righteous to give the Jews a nice parcel of land in Germany. Having a bunch of bureaucrats at the UN hand it to them at the expense of the Palestinians is another issue altogether.

Sure. But it's what they were handed. Maybe you think they should have said...OK but nah...no thanks. We'll just go ahead and stay here and live amongst the hired Polish and Ukrainian extermination camp guards who were worse than the nazis and got away with it, and the rest of the Europeans standing by the side of the tracks as the cattle cars went rolling by, giving the Jews inside the cut-throat sign. Or the anti-Semites in southern France, turning over their neighbors to the SS. Yeh...just stay there and live with those people.

Besides. It was apparently no big deal when, prior to the partition of Israel, the Jordanians decided to annex the West Bank which is apparently "Palestinian" land...or when the Egyptians annexed what is now "Palestinian" land. Nobody was calling the Jordanians or the Egyptians "land grabbers." Nobody was rising up in anger at the unfairness of it being at the expense of the "Palestinians".

It's bullshit. It's the Jews.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Sure. But it's what they were handed. Maybe you think they should have said...OK but nah...no thanks. We'll just go ahead and stay here and live amongst the hired Polish and Ukrainian extermination camp guards who were worse than the nazis and got away with it, and the rest of the Europeans standing by the side of the tracks as the cattle cars went rolling by, giving the Jews inside the cut-throat sign. Or the anti-Semites in southern France, turning over their neighbors to the SS. Yeh...just stay there and live with those people.

Besides. It was apparently no big deal when, prior to the partition of Israel, the Jordanians decided to annex the West Bank which is apparently "Palestinian" land...or when the Egyptians annexed what is now "Palestinian" land. Nobody was calling the Jordanians or the Egyptians "land grabbers." Nobody was rising up in anger at the unfairness of it being at the expense of the "Palestinians".

It's bullshit. It's the Jews.

Unless and until you travel over there and have a look around (including the West Bank and just the Israeli side of the Gaza wall), you have little idea of what kind of humiliating, dehumanizing shit the Palestinians have put up with for the last 60 years. I met a retired Irish nurse on a bus in the West Bank last November who volunteers in a maternity clinic in Bethlehem. When she flies back to Ireland, authorities at Ben Gurion airport routinely detain her for just enough time to miss her flight home while telling her that they're doing so to dissuade her from helping Palestinians in any way. Before the barrier wall went up, I saw Israeli soldiers stop cars at checkpoints and make older Arab women stand out in the desert sun for hours just because they could.

Take a gander at a map of the Israeli settlements (many "illegal" under Israeli law, yet still supported by Israel) on the West Bank and consider that the Israelis have had an open invitation from the early 1950's to Jews from around the world to come there and settle.

Our news media gives us pretty much half of the story of what is really going on over there and you can guess which half it is.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Unless and until you travel over there and have a look around (including the West Bank and just the Israeli side of the Gaza wall), you have little idea of what kind of humiliating, dehumanizing shit the Palestinians have put up with for the last 60 years. I met a retired Irish nurse on a bus in the West Bank last November who volunteers in a maternity clinic in Bethlehem. When she flies back to Ireland, authorities at Ben Gurion airport routinely detain her for just enough time to miss her flight home while telling her that they're doing so to dissuade her from helping Palestinians in any way. Before the barrier wall went up, I saw Israeli soldiers stop cars at checkpoints and make older Arab women stand out in the desert sun for hours just because they could.

Take a gander at a map of the Israeli settlements (many "illegal" under Israeli law, yet still supported by Israel) on the West Bank and consider that the Israelis have had an open invitation from the early 1950's to Jews from around the world to come there and settle.

Our news media gives us pretty much half of the story of what is really going on over there and you can guess which half it is.

I'm trying so hard to remember when any Jews flew any jetliners into any crowded American office buildings. You can pick and chose you favorite atrocities all you like Finn. It won't be changing my opinions on any of this. I will not question anything that Israeli Jews chose to do to protect themselves from the annihilation promised them by their poor victimized neighbors and the terrorists they support.

[bobabode]

Oy vey ist mir.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

I'm trying so hard to remember when any Jews flew any jetliners into any crowded American office buildings. You can pick and chose you favorite atrocities all you like Finn. It won't be changing my opinions on any of this. I will not question anything that Israeli Jews chose to do to protect themselves from the annihilation promised them by their poor victimized neighbors and the terrorists they support.

What was that you were saying about false equivalences?

Regards,

D-Ray

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

I'm trying so hard to remember when any Jews flew any jetliners into any crowded American office buildings. You can pick and chose you favorite atrocities all you like Finn. It won't be changing my opinions on any of this. I will not question anything that Israeli Jews chose to do to protect themselves from the annihilation promised them by their poor victimized neighbors and the terrorists they support.

Those were Saudi's who did that. What did we do to retaliate? Invade Iraq. Brilliant.

It's pretty clear that you have an obstructed view when it comes to this conflict.

This series of maps shows what has happened to Palestinian lands in the past 60 years. The last map is from 14 years ago and there are lots more settlements now in the West Bank than there were then. Meanwhile, Israel continues to encourage immigration of Jews from around the world to establish more "facts on the ground" (settlements).

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

We'll just go ahead and stay here and live amongst the hired Polish and Ukrainian extermination camp guards who were worse than the nazis and got away with it, and the rest of the Europeans standing by the side of the tracks as the cattle cars went rolling by, giving the Jews inside the cut-throat sign. Or the anti-Semites in southern France, turning over their neighbors to the SS. Yeh...just stay there and live with those people.

Why not?

There are a lot of black people living in the former slave and Jim Crow states.