The FBI Raid and the Mar-a-Lago Documents

[donquixote99]

The judge's radical and blatantly bad ruling seems to me designed to irresistibly bait the DOJ into appeals that will distract and delay, and ultimately give the corrupt Supreme Court a chance to meddle in the case. I think the prudent strategy is not to appeal. The delay for the special master process will be the lesser problem. The special master cannot stop the case, just slow it some.

[whell]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

Why don't you blame Trump first for stealing the documents, then hiding them and lying about them. Only one person could have avoided this by not stealing the docs to begin with and now the MAGA morons want to blame FBI for doing their jobs?

Originally Posted by Chicks

Why won’t he blame his Dear Leader? He’s a pathetic MAGAMoron, utterly incapable of doing so.

@Rajoo: I'm not blaming anyone for anything yet. I'll leave the rush to judgment to others for now.

@Chicks: are you capable of anything except name-calling folks you disagree with? It certainly seems that you're not.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by whell

@Rajoo: I'm not blaming anyone for anything yet

Of course you're not. After all some of the crap tRump & co. are flinging against the wall may actually stick. Donny may actually squirm out of violating the presidential records act.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by Chicks

This far-Reich, Trump-appointed judge is thoroughly disgusting. I hope the DOJ can get her nonsensical ruling overruled very soon.

The best justice money can buy.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by whell

@Rajoo: I'm not blaming anyone for anything yet. I'll leave the rush to judgment to others for now.

Why not? Love to see your response on this.

The FBI armed with a search warrant executed a search of Trump's home in Palm Beach. They were looking for Classified documents which first the NARA, later the JD negotiated with Trump to get them back. Trump returned some, an admission of possession of said documents. This then is also an admission that they were not his to take or keep. A Trump attorney then attested that the had none when a JD official visited Trump's home, after handing over a few more.

Finally an FBI raided to search and the found a trove of un-returned and discovered missing documents. What is there not to understand from this sequence of events?

And you will not, given this irrefutable information, blame Trump for taking documents from the WH, classified or otherwise, especially when forbidden by the NARA act?

But you blame the FBI for doing their job? And the Justice Department & President Biden? If the FBI is tasked to search for classified documents in a home, why wouldn't they search the entire home? Why wouldn't they take everything they can legally take? Why wouldn't they look at everything that they can legally look at?

If you have to fall on a sword after blaming Trump for stealing Classified documents and government secrets, I will understand. He is not worth dying for though.

[whell]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

Why not? Love to see your response on this.

The FBI armed with a search warrant executed a search of Trump's home in Palm Beach. They were looking for Classified documents which first the NARA, later the JD negotiated with Trump to get them back. Trump returned some, an admission of possession of said documents. This then is also an admission that they were not his to take or keep. A Trump attorney then attested that the had none when a JD official visited Trump's home, after handing over a few more.

Finally an FBI raided to search and the found a trove of un-returned and discovered missing documents. What is there not to understand from this sequence of events?

And you will not, given this irrefutable information, blame Trump for taking documents from the WH, classified or otherwise, especially when forbidden by the NARA act?

But you blame the FBI for doing their job? And the Justice Department & President Biden? If the FBI is tasked to search for classified documents in a home, why wouldn't they search the entire home? Why wouldn't they take everything they can legally take? Why wouldn't they look at everything that they can legally look at?

If you have to fall on a sword after blaming Trump for stealing Classified documents and government secrets, I will understand. He is not worth dying for though.

Reminder:

Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush were all accused of trying to hide government records but none faced criminal penalties. Add to that Hillary Clinton who mishandled records and kept confidential gov't info on a secure server (that was hacked), where we learned that no reasonable prosecutor would prosecute such a case due to lack of "intent". There was also Sandy Berger who was caught stealing classified documents from the National Archives. In Berger's case, a $50K fine was assessed, along with 100 hours of community service.

Also, the Presidential Records Act (PRA) is a law that doesn't contain an enforcement provision. So, it's not clear at this point exactly what law, other than the PRA, Justice would pursue charges under, or whether Justice believes it could successfully prosecute under those laws.

There's also the unresolved question of which if any records may be covered by Exec Privilege.

Nowhere did I blame the FBI for doing their job. I do question the motivations of the Justice Dept in this case. I also think there's something missing here that's not been reported/known by the press/not disclosed by the FBI or Justice.

I also find it unbelievable that Biden didn't have advance knowledge of the raid. Serving a search warrant on a former President of the United States is an extraordinary and unprecedented act. If I were president and the first I learned that my Justice Department had OK'd a raid on the home of a former president, and the FBI was carrying it out, was on CNN, I'd been embarrassed and pissed that I wasn't in the loop on such a decision.

As far as conducting the search, the FBI knew where the documents were. They had been to Mar a Lago before and seen where they were kept. They had requested that an additional lock be placed on the door to the room where the documents were stored.

In fact, we know that Trump's counsel was not allowed to be present for the search. During a lawful search, an attorney can ensure that the search is limited to the areas and materials listed in the search warrant. It is not unusual for law enforcement to determine that they want to search things outside the warrant’s scope, prompting a request for consent to search. Competent counsel generally denies consent to search. The government can always seek an additional warrant to search areas not listed in the original warrant if necessary.

Why was counsel not allowed to witness the search? Did agents seek consent before they went through the bedrooms of Trump's wife and child? If not, why not?

So, for me, there are more questions than answers right now. As I said, you folks can rush to judgment if you want, but I'm not quite ready yet.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by whell

Reminder:

Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush were all accused of trying to hide government records but none faced criminal penalties. Add to that Hillary Clinton who mishandled records and kept confidential gov't info on a secure server (that was hacked), where we learned that no reasonable prosecutor would prosecute such a case due to lack of "intent". There was also Sandy Berger who was caught stealing classified documents from the National Archives. In Berger's case, a $50K fine was assessed, along with 100 hours of community service.

Also, the Presidential Records Act (PRA) is a law that doesn't contain an enforcement provision. So, it's not clear at this point exactly what law, other than the PRA, Justice would pursue charges under, or whether Justice believes it could successfully prosecute under those laws.

There's also the unresolved question of which if any records may be covered by Exec Privilege.

Nowhere did I blame the FBI for doing their job. I do question the motivations of the Justice Dept in this case. I also think there's something missing here that's not been reported/known by the press/not disclosed by the FBI or Justice.

I also find it unbelievable that Biden didn't have advance knowledge of the raid. Serving a search warrant on a former President of the United States is an extraordinary and unprecedented act. If I were president and the first I learned that my Justice Department had OK'd a raid on the home of a former president, and the FBI was carrying it out, was on CNN, I'd been embarrassed and pissed that I wasn't in the loop on such a decision.

As far as conducting the search, the FBI knew where the documents were. They had been to Mar a Lago before and seen where they were kept. They had requested that an additional lock be placed on the door to the room where the documents were stored.

In fact, we know that Trump's counsel was not allowed to be present for the search. During a lawful search, an attorney can ensure that the search is limited to the areas and materials listed in the search warrant. It is not unusual for law enforcement to determine that they want to search things outside the warrant’s scope, prompting a request for consent to search. Competent counsel generally denies consent to search. The government can always seek an additional warrant to search areas not listed in the original warrant if necessary.

Why was counsel not allowed to witness the search? Did agents seek consent before they went through the bedrooms of Trump's wife and child? If not, why not?

So, for me, there are more questions than answers right now. As I said, you folks can rush to judgment if you want, but I'm not quite ready yet.

My question was very simple, Trump alone caused this.
So why aren't you blaming him first and foremost instead a page full of deflections and innuendos?

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

My question was very simple, Trump alone caused this.
So why aren't you blaming him first and foremost instead a page full of deflections and innuendos?

Waiting for TFG to wriggle his way out of this so he can claim no harm, no foul and no blame for anything. That allows him to claim the whole episode was just another hit job by Biden and the Democrats. As long as tRump will claim he is without blemish, so will whell.

[BigElCat]

An indictment for Trump would just be part of the show.

I'm going to stick to my prediction, not because I'm a Trump fan, but because I can recognize evil when I see it.

He going to run in 2024, and win.

These missing documents are 'much to do, about nothing' relative to what former Presidents have gotten away with.

Ollie North shredded five metric tons of paper work, then spent a week on TV, proudly announced that he was a liar, and everybody loved him. His boss, GHWB, went on to be president. Bill Barr was all involved then.

It's the same stuff. The near future does not look pretty. Kudos to Finnbow, "Junior Booger Sugar" made me laugh. (Except it was Poppy, not Junior).

[whell]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

My question was very simple, Trump alone caused this.
So why aren't you blaming him first and foremost instead a page full of deflections and innuendos?

Originally Posted by RickeyM

Waiting for TFG to wriggle his way out of this so he can claim no harm, no foul and no blame for anything. That allows him to claim the whole episode was just another hit job by Biden and the Democrats. As long as tRump will claim he is without blemish, so will whell.

What do you want me to say, Rajoo? That it looks bad? OK, yes, it looks bad. Did Trump cause the documents to be retained a Mar A Lago? Yes. Beyond that, there are a lot more questions than answers.

Also, it's an admirable attempt to marginalize what I posted above, but those are the facts. It's also a fact that there has been a rush to judgment on many things related to Trump (Russian collusion, Alfa Bank, etc.). So, yeah, I'll take a wait-and-see approach.

As for your comment, Ricky, you know nothing about what I think about this, and you just demonstrated it again with your post above.