Ahh, what a relief

[piece-itpete]

Heck even in the 80s when I lived in the shadow of LTV Steel (formerly Republic) if the wind blew the wrong way it stunk, and rain coated everything with gunk.

On the plus side, rent was $169 for the whole house and when we got drunk and bored we'd wander around LTV until someone booted us out, which was fun

Pete

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Trouble in Marxist paradise?

A number of years ago I read a story where the Chinese believed they needed to modernize so they started a slogan campaign. In a bank was a big banner - 'Work hard or you will be fired' lol.

Pete

Isn't the growth of industrialization in China an attempt to move toward a more market based economic system? The almighty dollar (or yuan) is taking precedence over the health of the working class.

Regards,

D-Ray

[piece-itpete]

When you have nothing health usually isn't an issue, you get sick and die

Neither is the enviroment. A coupla years ago I heard that populations start worrying about the enviroment when their income hits... 6k? 7K? Something like that.

Pete

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Economically, no. I believe the loss of heavy industry is a crippling factor on our economy. I meant from an environmental standpoint.

And I think your point strikes at the heart of the matter, economically. Many of those jobs were high paying, but low skill level jobs that have been replaced with "service industry" jobs. Which keeps people busy, but does little to sustain a strong and stable consumer base. Pay unskilled people $50 an hour to insert screws? No, that's rediculous. But low service industry wages do little to create demand, IMHO.

Dave

That's what I've been talking about, in terms of energy consumption and overall consumption -- we need to simplify our lives. We can't constantly be buying junk and replacing it with more junk a year or two later. The old junk ends up in a landfill, and God knows what kind of chemicals are in the junk. The manufacture of most of the junk probably adds to the pollution problems in China.

With the advent of all of this cheap junk, not only has the economy lost manufacturing jobs, but also repair and maintenance jobs. I remember when the TV repairman used to come to our house with his toolbox full of tubes. Now about the only things we get house calls for are the major appliances and the heating/air conditioning. Very little else gets repaired, unless you count the "factory reconditioning" performed on warranty returns.

At some point, our prosperity can have a negative impact on our quality of life.

P.S. For a good book on post-industrial life read Kurt Vonnegut's Player Piano. I remember that the summer I read it, I was working on an assembly line.

Regards,

D-Ray

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

When you have nothing health usually isn't an issue, you get sick and die

Neither is the enviroment. A coupla years ago I heard that populations start worrying about the enviroment when their income hits... 6k? 7K? Something like that.

Pete

I think pain is an issue in any economic class. So is the ability to breathe.

Regards,

D-Ray

[piece-itpete]

I agree, but a poor man can't afford any health care at all.

My dad said my granddad got sick, the doctor told him to bring a button.

To save money, the doctor did an operation in his office, sewed up the inside, pulled the top skin over and sewed on the button (so the stitches wouldn't rip out).

It didn't work - my dad says within a week or two his skin turned green and he died.

This person was a member of the brotherhood of railroad engineers (at times a steward), time frame 1943-44.

Now most have insurance, so yes indeed things get better.

Pete

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I agree, but a poor man can't afford any health care at all.

My dad said my granddad got sick, the doctor told him to bring a button.

To save money, the doctor did an operation in his office, sewed up the inside, pulled the top skin over and sewed on the button (so the stitches wouldn't rip out).

It didn't work - my dad says within a week or two his skin turned green and he died.

This person was a member of the brotherhood of railroad engineers (at times a steward), time frame 1943-44.

Now most have insurance, so yes indeed things get better.

Pete

I'm sorry your grandpa had to experience that. There are things to be said for tort lawyers. That quack obviously was clueless about sterile fields and other no brainer surgical requirements. Tort lawyers would have put him out of business. No one should have to turn to that type of incompetence for health care.

Regards,

D-Ray

[piece-itpete]

I really appreciate your sympathy, it was what it was, the dr did what my Granddad could afford. Different time. I have no malice but would've liked to have met him.

I was just sayin' that the industrial revolution does indeed raise the standard of living over time, and will make the peasants lives better, eventually, unless they remain slaves (like the construction workers over there).

Pete

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

I think it remains to be seen. Could be good, but if the jobs that replace them are at McDonalds, I'm not so sure.

The biggest problem is it just kicks the can a little farther down the street. Sure, we get rid of a polluting industry but by palming it off on someone else. What needs to happen is for us to keep the industries (and the jobs they provide) here while looking for ways to "green 'em up" a bit.

John

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Heck even in the 80s when I lived in the shadow of LTV Steel (formerly Republic) if the wind blew the wrong way it stunk, and rain coated everything with gunk.

On the plus side, rent was $169 for the whole house and when we got drunk and bored we'd wander around LTV until someone booted us out, which was fun

Pete

We share some common history, Pete. One night in 1980, some friends and I had gotten drunk on Mickeys Big Mouth and were driving around near the Republic (Now Severstal) Mill in Warren smoking weed in my buddies '73 Buick Deuce and a Quarter when we got the notion to pop in through a hole in the fence. We went exploring around in some of the abandoned buildings on the sight. (One of them was an old "Plant Medical Clinic" that looked like it had been empty since the 1950's. It was really cool.) Anyhow, at some point we had wandered onto the railyard and started pulling airbrakes. The yard bulls caught us. Scary Dudes, they actually carried shotguns back then.

The old man was not happy picking me up at the police station. I believe what he asked when our eyes met was; "Are you paralyzed from the neck up?!" Ahh, the heartwarming memories of my youth...........

Regards,
Dave