Erdogan pushes against Ataturk.

[Dondilion]

Turkey's Erdogan seems often to find a way to out maneuver the powerful
secular in his land.

It was surprising that he has so far survived Ataturk's influences, especially that of the army.

Erdogan rode out recent protests by appealing to a conservative rural Muslim base.

He is now cementing his appeal by reintroducing the Ottoman language to Turkey.

The language of the Ottoman Empire was closer to Arabic and Persian.

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinion...nlanguage.html

[finnbow]

The Turks I know and have visited while in western Turkey (Istanbul and down along the Aegean coast near Izmir) hate him with a passion. We were in Turkey on family vacation last year until the day before the Taksim uprising and were aware of Erdogan's politics, but didn't realize the animus toward him among secular, western-oriented Turks. Though his policies have been very successful from an economic POV, I fear he's gonna fuck up a truly wonderful country. There's a lot to like about Turkey, but he isn't part of it.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by finnbow

The Turks I know and have visited while in western Turkey (Istanbul and down along the Aegean coast near Izmir) hate him with a passion. We were in Turkey on family vacation last year until the day before the Taksim uprising and were aware of Erdogan's politics, but didn't realize the animus toward him among secular, western-oriented Turks. Though his policies have been very successful from an economic POV, I fear he's gonna fuck up a truly wonderful country. There's a lot to like about Turkey, but he isn't part of it.

spot on

sickens me to see this wonderful country back peddle from western values

[Dondilion]

Erdogan plays on the suspicion of western values, which exists in the heartland of his country.

"But nostalgia has always been a part of Erdogan's political appeal...He remains, at heart, a son of the Anatolian heartland."

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...gansimage.html

What surprises me is that the army has remained neutral. Probably sympathy for an empire which lasted for 6 centuries runs deeper than we think.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Erdogan plays on the suspicion of western values, which exists in the heartland of his country.

"But nostalgia has always been a part of Erdogan's political appeal...He remains, at heart, a son of the Anatolian heartland."

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...gansimage.html

What surprises me is that the army has remained neutral. Probably sympathy for an empire which lasted for 6 centuries runs deeper than we think.

Central Anatolia is indeed quite different than western, coastal Turkey, though the people are just as gracious and generous. There are some western-oriented towns (e.g., Göreme, Ürgüp) in Cappadocia due to the influence of tourists, but most of the rest of the surrounding cities (e.g., Kayseri) are quite conservative.

Turkey is an absolutely fantastic place to visit. I hope Erdogan doesn't fuck that up, though I think it's beyond his capacity to change the gracious warmth of the Turkish people. One must wonder, however, if he likes the influence of western tourism on his country (though he obviously likes their money).

[merrylander]

I guess it is a nice place as long as you are not an Armenian.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by merrylander

I guess it is a nice place as long as you are not an Armenian.

That's not even remotely true. The Turks I encountered, from liberal Izmir to conservative Kayseri, were universally kind, gracious and hospitable to us and we made no effort to conceal our nationality. We experienced warmth, hospitality, graciousness and generosity at least on a par with Canada's Maritime Provinces and Ireland (two other exceptionally hospitable places). It's the Russians and the Greeks they hate.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

That's not even remotely true.......... It's the Russians and the Greeks they hate.

Rob was referring to the Armenian genocide perpetrated by the Ottoman government around the beginning of the 20th century. Since Ataturk, however, there have been rather successful efforts to assimilate the few remaining Turkish Armenians (~50,000), most of whom live in and around Istanbul. The cosmopolitan nature of that city affords the Armenian population with a degree of protection too but, with the growing Islamization of Turkey, things could change for this largely Christian minority.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Rob was referring to the Armenian genocide perpetrated by the Ottoman government around the beginning of the 20th century. Since Ataturk, however, there have been rather successful efforts to assimilate the few remaining Turkish Armenians (~50,000), most of whom live in and around Istanbul. The cosmopolitan nature of that city affords the Armenian population with a degree of protection too but, with the growing Islamization of Turkey, things could change for this largely Christian minority.

John

Oops, I misread his post to say American. My bad.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Rob was referring to the Armenian genocide perpetrated by the Ottoman government around the beginning of the 20th century. Since Ataturk, however, there have been rather successful efforts to assimilate the few remaining Turkish Armenians (~50,000), most of whom live in and around Istanbul. The cosmopolitan nature of that city affords the Armenian population with a degree of protection too but, with the growing Islamization of Turkey, things could change for this largely Christian minority.

John

I guess Finnbow "read" American instead of Armenian.

The Turks have always been uncomfortable with Armenian minority and when
the Armenians appeared to have sided with tsarist Russia they used it as an excuse to carry out ethnic cleansing...a terrible period for the Armenians.

As to Greeks: The Cyprus issue has not yet been resolved.

Oops! Did not see Finn's post.