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10-04-2015, 06:35 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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POLITICAL THEORY - Karl Marx
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"Man is born to be free - and everywhere in chains!" -Rousseau
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10-04-2015, 06:44 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanishingPoi
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Welcome back, ma'am!
Marxism explained in under 10 minutes!
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Last edited by Boreas; 10-04-2015 at 06:47 PM.
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10-04-2015, 06:53 PM
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Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Howdy neighbor.
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I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
- Mr. Underhill
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10-04-2015, 07:50 PM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
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Yep.
I always think of personal experiences and things I've witnessed.
Like the failures of various "incentive" plans I've watched unfold over the years as micro-models the capitalist ideal. I work in manufacturing.
I've watched men rewarded for higher rates of sheer output with paid time off. Then watched them work themselves hard, producing astonishing amounts of work with only the top performer actually getting his day off.......until they became injured or too exhausted to keep it up..........
Then get fired for their subsequent decline in performance.
What did they get for their efforts? Most got nothing at all. A small handful got a day or two off over the course of six months. Many of them simply ended up sore, tired and looking for another job.
I've seen the financial reward type of "merit based" system as well. It falls apart because, unfortunately, corruption creeps in there as well. It seems that buddy systems crop up wherein supervisors give favorable reviews of people they like, but for reasons that have little or nothing to do with the job. And this occurs very quickly as it would turn out. People who apparently do very little or nothing all start getting all the raises based on bogus claims of work ethic as the rest, who are taking up the slack, get no rise in income for years.
It destroys morale and productivity DECLINES.
At that point, upper management gets involved intent on correcting the situation. But of course, they have no idea who really does what, so this worsens the situation.
We see similar things occur in the Macro; Crony Capitalism, Corporate Oligarchy, etc., etc.......
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"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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11-18-2015, 08:14 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Posts: 460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
Yep.
I always think of personal experiences and things I've witnessed.
Like the failures of various "incentive" plans I've watched unfold over the years as micro-models the capitalist ideal. I work in manufacturing.
I've watched men rewarded for higher rates of sheer output with paid time off. Then watched them work themselves hard, producing astonishing amounts of work with only the top performer actually getting his day off.......until they became injured or too exhausted to keep it up..........
Then get fired for their subsequent decline in performance.
What did they get for their efforts? Most got nothing at all. A small handful got a day or two off over the course of six months. Many of them simply ended up sore, tired and looking for another job.
I've seen the financial reward type of "merit based" system as well. It falls apart because, unfortunately, corruption creeps in there as well. It seems that buddy systems crop up wherein supervisors give favorable reviews of people they like, but for reasons that have little or nothing to do with the job. And this occurs very quickly as it would turn out. People who apparently do very little or nothing all start getting all the raises based on bogus claims of work ethic as the rest, who are taking up the slack, get no rise in income for years.
It destroys morale and productivity DECLINES.
At that point, upper management gets involved intent on correcting the situation. But of course, they have no idea who really does what, so this worsens the situation.
We see similar things occur in the Macro; Crony Capitalism, Corporate Oligarchy, etc., etc.......
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I completely understand what you are saying as do many others Thank you. One said to read history but I think he is the one who should read and most of all understand history.
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"Man is born to be free - and everywhere in chains!" -Rousseau
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10-04-2015, 07:58 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,454
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Would you people read history!! and when you do, don't expect doing the same thing will get different results.
O brother
I think we're on the verge of a civil war when we have mainstream thinking like this.
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10-04-2015, 09:13 PM
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Jigsawed
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
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It is always much easier to analyse/point out the flaws in a capitalist system than to find remedies.
Communism biggest problem is that it cannot abide the individual.
Last edited by Dondilion; 10-04-2015 at 09:27 PM.
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10-04-2015, 09:25 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondilion
It is always much easier to analyse/point out the flaws in a capitalist system than to find remedies.
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In a moment of reflection, I believe Marx said as much.
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Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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11-18-2015, 08:26 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Posts: 460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
In a moment of reflection, I believe Marx said as much.
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Yes, that is exactly right. All Marx did was critique Capitalism. He never advocated for anything.
Richard Wolff is putting forward some good ideas on the how to end of it.
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"Man is born to be free - and everywhere in chains!" -Rousseau
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10-05-2015, 02:18 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondilion
It is always much easier to analyse/point out the flaws in a capitalist system than to find remedies.
Communism biggest problem is that it cannot abide the individual.
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It relies upon everyone being happy with the idea of serving the greater good. over their own personal ambitions. Some people have no problem with that, some people obviously do. That's where the authoritarian state stems from. Those who refuse to play along end up being treated as criminals, "enemies of the people". And of course corrupt officials help themselves at will, because as the jailers, they know they'll never go to jail.
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"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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