Oil............

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Charles

Well, we have to get the energy to meet our needs from somewhere. And domestic oil production would help the balance of trade. And create jobs.

But I keep forgetting that the American oil companies are evil. So let's keep enriching the likes of Chavez and ARAMCO.

Chas

Chas, that's basically why we have to get off oil.

John

[doucanoe]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Yes, that's where I got my figures on estimated reserves.



Help me out here. What was in that article that I should know? I didn't see anything about estimated reserves in ANWR or any place else.

I did, however, check out ANWR.org. It's an industry front group. I also went to an article on their site titled "How much oil is in ANWR?". Basically, they ducked the question. They say that there could be a whole lot but the only way to find out is to drill for it.

Nothing, other than referencing oil reserves off the west coast from California upward.

Originally Posted by Boreas

One of our main suppliers is Venezuela which may, in fact, have greater reserves than any other country in the world. Gives you reason to wonder why we're demonizing Hugo Chavez like we did Saddam Hussein, doesn't it?

Chavez, is an Autocrat who reaps the harvest of his countries riches while the majority of his people live in abject poverty. A wonderful "social" program they have there.

Originally Posted by Boreas

By the way, did you know that we sell North Slope crude to foreign countries? China buys a lot of it.

John

Yes.

RC

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

Nothing, other than referencing oil reserves off the west coast from California upward.

I live in California.

Chavez, is an Autocrat who reaps the harvest of his countries riches while the majority of his people live in abject poverty. A wonderful "social" program they have there.

Chavez is a popularly elected borderline autocrat who has used his country's oil wealth to raise the standard of living for the people of his country significantly over what the previous autocrats had imposed.

There are people living in abject poverty in this country too. I'm not holding Chavez up as a model of ideal leadership. I'm only pointing out that we have pretty transparent motives in not only demonizing him but arranging a coup d'etat to remove him.

I find it interesting that the coup failed when the people rose up and demanded his reinstatement and the military rank & file refused to suppress the demonstrators when so ordered. Maybe you don't like Chavez but his people do. Not only did they thwart the US-organized coup but they've re-elected him since then.

Add to that the fact that, after one near miss (49% - 51%), Chavez succeeded in having term limits removed by popular referendum, thus allowing him to run for office again. Of course, the Right Wing/Oil Oligarchs here claimed he was trying to make himself "President for Life", totally ignoring the fact that he still has to be re-elected.

John

[doucanoe]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Of course, the Right Wing/Oil Oligarchs here claimed he was trying to make himself "President for Life", totally ignoring the fact that he still has to be re-elected.

John

Thats going to be quite an election I would imagine

RC

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by Boreas

...There are people living in abject poverty in this country too. ...

Like Brazil?

Pete

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

Thats going to be quite an election I would imagine

RC

Why? Do you have inside information that we're going to screw around with it?

The previous election in 2006 was certified by the OAS and the Carter Center. Face it, the Venezuelan people love the guy even if we don't.

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Boreas
...There are people living in abject poverty in this country too. ...

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Like Brazil?

Pete

Like most any place you care to mention.

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

Not yet, he's still working on "Total transparency in government" thing.

RC

You bet your ass he is!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/us...rets.html?_r=1

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...ty-information

John

[doucanoe]

Originally Posted by Boreas

You bet your ass he is!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/us...rets.html?_r=1

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...ty-information

John

Isn't Nation Security Information something that should remain classified? Next thing you know, we will be trying terrorists outside of military courts. Oh thats right...

By the way, when a politician does something "in an effort to", it rings hollow with me.

How about he start with the Stimulus Bill and Health Care same. Not much disclosure or transparency in trying to ram stuff through without even his own congress not knowing their complete contents let alone the people. The only reason there was a modicum of transparency there was because of many concerned about it. The "many" certianly was not him or his people.

RC

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

Isn't Nation Security Information something that should remain classified?

There are often cases where the reasons for keeping something classified no longer apply. There are also occasions when a document is classified solely to conceal wrongdoing on the part of those in power. In those cases the "people's right to know" should dictate that the information be declassified.

Next thing you know, we will be trying terrorists outside of military courts. Oh thats right...

Where was Richard Reid tried? How about Zacarias Moussaoui? Jose Padilla? Who was president then?

How about he start with the Stimulus Bill and Health Care same. Not much disclosure or transparency in trying to ram stuff through without even his own congress not knowing their complete contents let alone the people.

Congress wrote both the Stimulus and the Health Care bills. How can you possibly maintain that they were kept in the dark?

The only reason there was a modicum of transparency there was because of many concerned about it. The "many" certianly was not him or his people.

RC

I think you need a rest, my friend. You're getting a bit shrill here.

John