TPP: An act of duplicity

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by nailer

That Taiwan is not among the participants might just be a clear indication as to who/what this alliance is meant to address.

China tho not a signatory is a major producer and soon to be the number one market. So by being the destination of outsourced jobs and pirated technologies with little redress, any deal made seems to me pointless.

Is it the simple fact China would refuse to comply even if a agreement was reached with them? Or industry in the other countries trying to squeeze the last bit of profit before China's rise to the top?

Barney

[BlueStreak]

After the last two days at work, I can't see how manufacturing could survive in this country. Seriously. Even the college educated folks in charge don't seem to have any idea what in the hell they are doing, or even care enough to spend time on the factory floor watching what goes on. It's sad but true....... It's a total mess.

Dave

[nailer]

Get real, popular sovereignty is essentially a lie due to how readily the masses can be manipulated.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by nailer

Get real, popular sovereignty is essentially a lie due to how readily the masses can be manipulated.

I'm as real as death.

I don't think anyone would argue that popular sovereignty in the US is strong and intact but the very fact that the masses need to be manipulated is an indication that there's still some vestiges of it left, if only as a concept or as something to be paid lip service.

The point is that TPP would further erode both popular and national sovereignty in favor of corporate sovereignty.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I'm as real as death.

I don't think anyone would argue that popular sovereignty in the US is strong and intact but the very fact that the masses need to be manipulated is an indication that there's still some vestiges of it left, if only as a concept or as something to be paid lip service.

The point is that TPP would further erode both popular and national sovereignty in favor of corporate sovereignty.

From day one sovereignty in the US has resided in Congress and the President, not the people. The partnering of political/national sovereignty and corporate interests is what American Fascism is all about. I don't think corporations are interested in ruling, i.e. exercising sovereignty. They want to do what they want to do no matter what in order to satiate their insatiable greed. Being able to buy the politicians meets their requirements.

Leadership manipulates followers. When a group finally has enough of being manipulated to their detriment they rebel/protest. The sovereign government uses force and/or appeasement to maintain it's power. If it fails, in the case of revolution, an new boss will arise. "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss."

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by nailer

From day one sovereignty in the US has resided in Congress and the President, not the people. The partnering of political/national sovereignty and corporate interests is what American Fascism is all about. I don't think corporations are interested in ruling, i.e. exercising sovereignty. They want to do what they want to do no matter what in order to satiate their insatiable greed. Being able to buy the politicians meets their requirements.

Leadership manipulates followers. When a group finally has enough of being manipulated to their detriment they rebel/protest. The sovereign government uses force and/or appeasement to maintain it's power. If it fails, in the case of revolution, an new boss will arise. "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss."

The president and the legislators are nominally the representatives of the people, our servants by constitutional mandate. We are not theirs. You can argue the functional reality of this 'til the cows come home but popular sovereignty is at the root of our system of government.

And when a corporation has the right to sue a government because laws passed by that government interfere with the corporation's ability to make money in that country, that is a transfer of sovereignty from a nation and its people to that corporation. The compelling interests of a state and its people will then become subservient to the corporate bottom line.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by Boreas

The president and the legislators are nominally the representatives of the people, our servants by constitutional mandate. We are not theirs. You can argue the functional reality of this 'til the cows come home but popular sovereignty is at the root of our system of government.

And when a corporation has the right to sue a government because laws passed by that government interfere with the corporation's ability to make money in that country, that is a transfer of sovereignty from a nation and its people to that corporation. The compelling interests of a state and its people will then become subservient to the corporate bottom line.

Your HS civics lesson is indeed one of the key pillars supporting our nation's mythology.

[donquixote99]

The TPP must be destroyed.

I think this goes in the sig.

See http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=5411 for the basics on how the TPP makes an unaccountable foreign 'tribunal' superior to US law. Corporations are given the ability to claim unlimited compensation from US taxpayers if government policy impacts their 'expected'* profits. This stick will give the corporations more leverage than ever to dictate regulatory policy in areas of corporate finance, labor law, environmental protections, job safety, and anything else.


*that is, estimated profits. And an 'estimate' can be anything. There is nothing more plastic than an estimate. The fix is built-in to these extra-constitutional 'tribunals.'

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The TPP must be destroyed.

I think this goes in the sig.

See http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=5411 for the basics on how the TPP makes an unaccountable foreign 'tribunal' superior to US law. Corporations are given the ability to claim unlimited compensation from US taxpayers if government policy impacts their 'expected'* profits. This stick will give the corporations more leverage than ever to dictate regulatory policy in areas of corporate finance, labor law, environmental protections, job safety, and anything else.


*that is, estimated profits. And an 'estimate' can be anything. There is nothing more plastic than an estimate. The fix is built-in to these extra-constitutional 'tribunals.'

Thanks for the link Don Q.

[Dondilion]

After NAFTA Greenville lost the fridge maker Electrolux, even when huge incentives were offered.

The article below view TPP through Greenville's eyes...the pros and cons.

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...tor-plant.html