How much should we pay?

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

Write a check for 30 or 40 thousand to the IRS and tell me you trust that they will spend it wisely.

And for the record, I don't "write a check" but over the course of a year, I *do* pay more than $30k. And I think they need to raise taxes and pay the bills.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

Good post about the ER's Hillbilly. That is happening far too often and is what
will start happening at all medical clinics if treatment is free and why this
healthcare reform should be defeated.

If providing healthcare for everyone that needs it will overtax our health care system the answer is to increase the capacity of the system, not to restrict access.

None of the proposals being considered by Congress call for free health care. You've been lied to, Jack. You've been hoodwinked by the people you think have your interests at heart.

I dont think those "teaparties" are so much a protest over what the tax rates are currently but what Obama has promised they may be.

Obama promised to lower taxes on people making less than $250,000 and raise taxes on people making more than that. That's what he promised. Is that what you don't like?

Its more of a protest against the current environment for trying to generate an income against competition from third world countries.

Reagan did that and every president since has continued it. It's the "free trade" that right wingers are always promoting.

But they have an answer for you. In a recent Wall Street Journal the suggestion was made that American workers are greedy. They need to learn to accept the sort of wages that workers in other countries, like China, accept. That's the way to make American industry competitive again.

Right.

That and a government growing at a pace we cant sustain with current tax rates and revenue.

Republicans are responsible for that too. They've been cutting taxes to unsustainable levels since Reagan. Bush continued cutting taxes while growing government at a tremendous rate.

Write a check for 30 or 40 thousand to the IRS and tell me you trust that they will spend it wisely.

Yeah, you're mad alright. The trouble is you're mad at the wrong people.

John

[Charles]

Tax the rich @ 90%. Hell, tax everybody @ 100%. We still don't have the money to cover our bets.

Hell, just tax everyone @ 200% and let central planning clean up the mess. That's the game plan.

Chas

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Charles

Tax the rich @ 90%. Hell, tax everybody @ 100%. We still don't have the money to cover our bets.

Hell, just tax everyone @ 200% and let central planning clean up the mess. That's the game plan.

Chas

That really isn't true. Or doesn't have to be. Just look at what happened during the Clinton years. He called it the "Peace Dividend". And it worked. And we paid more in taxes.

But it doesn't matter. That kind of defeatist attitude doesn't help anything or anyone. What do we spend our money on? Social Security, Medicade/Medicare and the Military. I'm not in favor of cutting the first two. We can cut the third if we're smart and we start now. Bin Laden's plan was to lure us into a war that would bankrupt us. It's working. We need to stop.

Okay, that won't get fixed tomorrow. But we need to start working on it. In the mean time, we need to a tax to pay for the wars. At least get back to where we were eight years ago.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Boreas

None of the proposals being considered by Congress call for free health care.

If fact the proposals call for quite the opposite.

take some time and look check into it.

forget about Beck

[HatchetJack]

I dont have a dog in this race. Both parties want to shake me down and send
my money elsewhere. No one stands up for the middle class well except
maybe those teapartiers. Both sides better listen to that bunch.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

No one stands up for the middle class well except
maybe those teapartiers.

, wish they new what they were doing then

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

No one stands up for the middle class well except
maybe those teapartiers. Both sides better listen to that bunch.

If they had a coherent argument, I'd be the first to listen. To me, their message is "I'm angry, but I'm not sure at whom and for what reason. The world is too complicated for me to understand and voice a cogent opinion. Therefore, I'll just scream a bunch of non sequiturs and get my face on Fox News."

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

That really isn't true. Or doesn't have to be. Just look at what happened during the Clinton years. He called it the "Peace Dividend". And it worked. And we paid more in taxes.

But it doesn't matter. That kind of defeatist attitude doesn't help anything or anyone. What do we spend our money on? Social Security, Medicade/Medicare and the Military. I'm not in favor of cutting the first two. We can cut the third if we're smart and we start now. Bin Laden's plan was to lure us into a war that would bankrupt us. It's working. We need to stop.

Okay, that won't get fixed tomorrow. But we need to start working on it. In the mean time, we need to a tax to pay for the wars. At least get back to where we were eight years ago.

I've also said that OBL's plan was to lure us into a war which would bankrupt us, but let me clarify that. OBL's plan was to show the Middle East that the United States was a paper tiger and unwilling to confront the Radical Islamist's for any length of time. He is a true revolutionary (faith based if you want to call it that) who intends to remake the order of things in the Middle East. As the US supports the status quo in the Middle East, we must be discredited in order for his followers to change the order of things. What they need is hope, and by defeating the US, they have proven that their goals are possible.

But that's just another theory...it's far more complex than that.

As to spending, I am totally bewildered. We have woken up in Vegas, with a horrible hangover, so far in debt that we'll never be able to pay it back, and we're gonna have to put more on the card just to get home.

Somewhere, somehow, we've fucked up big time.

So how do we get from point A to Point B? Go back to the Constitutional mandate that all money will be backed by gold or silver? Fat chance of that happening. Look at the gold market, I don't think that much gold exists...it's just more pie in the sky.

Continue with our currency based on debt? As bad as it is, we're so far beyond the Rubicon that it's the only option left. Other than for us to change the order of things.

Boo, boo, and hiss!!! As much as I dislike it, I'm all in favor of kicking the same shitty can down the same shitty road for as long as we can. I have something to lose.

The problem is, we're coming up with a considerable amount of people who have nothing to lose. They will be the ones to affect the order of things. We need to put them back to work, give them something to lose...make them part of the status quo.

Kind of mindless ramblings on my part....I'll call it a nite.

Chas

[Charles]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

I dont have a dog in this race. Both parties want to shake me down and send
my money elsewhere. No one stands up for the middle class well except
maybe those teapartiers. Both sides better listen to that bunch.

Ding, Ding....give that man a cigar!!!!!

The Tea Party bunch doesn't much care for either party. And I don't either.

Give 'em time to evolve, can a 3rd party be any worse the the other two? They are a grassroots bunch.

Chas