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12-15-2016, 11:50 AM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Happy to. And as I suspected, you can't answer the question.
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Your persistent efforts, through convoluted logic and obfuscation, to discredit intelligence reports of Russian/Putin involvement in our election do indeed defend Russia/Putin. That much is clear. What isn't clear is your motive. Sound familiar?
Why don't you spell out your motive for all of us to see?
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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12-15-2016, 12:03 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
Your persistent efforts, through convoluted logic and obfuscation, to discredit intelligence reports of Russian/Putin involvement in our election do indeed defend Russia/Putin. That much is clear. What isn't clear is your motive. Sound familiar?
Why don't you spell out your motive for all of us to see?
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Damn, you can't even get the minor details right. It's no wonder you miss the big picture.
I've not "discredited" or denied that hacking occurred. I still don't think we can prove who did it, and if we can't do that it's pretty difficult to discern motive. Yet the media is talking leaks from "officials" and unnamed sources in the CIA which and running with them as fact. That includes your latest link from NBC suggesting Putin did it.
Certainty appears as if the hacks came from Russia, and there's apparent circumstantial evidence connecting it to Russian intelligence. From there, it's probably not hard to then say the Russian gov't was involved. Anything beyond that is sheer speculation.
But apparently you, and probably many others, treat the suggestion that this was all about a Putin effort to favor Trump as gospel because when someone points out the apparent lack of evidence and reporting based on unofficial leaks, you accuse them of treason.
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12-15-2016, 12:38 PM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Damn, you can't even get the minor details right. It's no wonder you miss the big picture.
I've not "discredited" or denied that hacking occurred. I still don't think we can prove who did it, and if we can't do that it's pretty difficult to discern motive. Yet the media is talking leaks from "officials" and unnamed sources in the CIA which and running with them as fact. That includes your latest link from NBC suggesting Putin did it.
Certainty appears as if the hacks came from Russia, and there's apparent circumstantial evidence connecting it to Russian intelligence. From there, it's probably not hard to then say the Russian gov't was involved. Anything beyond that is sheer speculation.
But apparently you, and probably many others, treat the suggestion that this was all about a Putin effort to favor Trump as gospel because when someone points out the apparent lack of evidence and reporting based on unofficial leaks, you accuse them of treason.
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Anything beyond that is more than is needed to say, as I do, that enemy action, sourced in the official apparatus of the Russian state, has been taken against the United States.
I think you realize how sour this is likely to go on you.
__________________
If you Love Liberty, you must Hate Trump!
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12-15-2016, 01:09 PM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Certainty appears as if the hacks came from Russia, and there's apparent circumstantial evidence connecting it to Russian intelligence. From there, it's probably not hard to then say the Russian gov't was involved. Anything beyond that is sheer speculation.
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The Russian government is Putin, dimwit. What, again, is your motive in continuing to try to obfuscate Russian/Putin involvement?
BTW, having just listened to Limbaugh on the way back from the gym, I already know the next obfuscation tactics that Trump/Putin apologists plan to employ. The theory goes that since the intelligence agencies are pissed that Trump has been dissing them for the past weeks, they chose to leak false info on Russian/Putin involvement in the election as payback to destroy Trump. Furthermore, this entire thing is being orchestrated behind the scenes by Obama.
Sorry to expose your next obfuscation before you had a chance to sling it, but it seem that Joad may have done so anyway in another thread. Maybe he's trying to take the mantle of prime Putin apologist away from you.
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
Last edited by finnbow; 12-15-2016 at 01:20 PM.
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12-15-2016, 06:40 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
The Russian government is Putin, dimwit. What, again, is your motive in continuing to try to obfuscate Russian/Putin involvement?
BTW, having just listened to Limbaugh on the way back from the gym, I already know the next obfuscation tactics that Trump/Putin apologists plan to employ. The theory goes that since the intelligence agencies are pissed that Trump has been dissing them for the past weeks, they chose to leak false info on Russian/Putin involvement in the election as payback to destroy Trump. Furthermore, this entire thing is being orchestrated behind the scenes by Obama.
Sorry to expose your next obfuscation before you had a chance to sling it, but it seem that Joad may have done so anyway in another thread. Maybe he's trying to take the mantle of prime Putin apologist away from you.
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Well I'm glad we have you as our Limbaugh show correspondent, but I'm sure you'll find a way to get that wrong too.
The left, especially in the last couple months, has been pushing this notion that Putin is the ultimate strongman who controls every aspect of Russian government, right down to the minutiae level. That, of course, isn't the case. WaPo made this point in a "The Post's View" editorial just a couple months ago. Its also a point that has been made recently by Stratfor. Russian political history if rife with intrigue, in-fighting and the last few decades are no exception.
So while I agree that Putin is the current President and has consolidated his power much like his predecessors, keeping power in Russia is a constant struggle. Therefore, I don't buy this notion that nothing happens in Russia unless Putin knows about it.
That said, could he have orchestrated the hacks? Sure. But the evidence and rationale presented so far is pretty damn flimsy. It is far to flimsy to support drawing conclusions about supposed intent.
What's my motive? I don't care for the BS that has been sold as news and regard this "hacks were designed to favor Trump" story as just another bit of that BS. Nothing you've presented here so far changes that view, and in fact some of it has reinforced that view.
Last edited by whell; 12-15-2016 at 06:43 PM.
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12-15-2016, 06:45 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
Anything beyond that is more than is needed to say, as I do, that enemy action, sourced in the official apparatus of the Russian state, has been taken against the United States.
I think you realize how sour this is likely to go on you.
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Nah, don't think so. Of course, if "enemy action has been taken against the United States, and we've know about it for about a year now, we're certainly not scaring anyone with our response.
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12-16-2016, 10:29 AM
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Rational Anarchist
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Nah, don't think so. Of course, if "enemy action has been taken against the United States, and we've know about it for about a year now, we're certainly not scaring anyone with our response.
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The response is part of our long term we need to be scared of the Russians strategy. The Establishment will be using this, and lots of other stuff, to minimize Trump's exercise of presidential power.
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Last edited by nailer; 12-16-2016 at 10:32 AM.
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12-16-2016, 11:26 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Faithless Elector Fake News
The widely circulated and commented upon " faithless elector" op-ed from the NY Times is turning out to be more fake news. The NY Times no doubt rushed this piece into their op-ed pages without slowing down to ask a few basic questions. It was then picked up as a news piece and repeated elsewhere.
Turns out the "faithless elector" is a likely a fraud.
You can't make this stuff up...unless you're a lefty.
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12-16-2016, 11:35 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Well I'm glad we have you as our Limbaugh show correspondent, but I'm sure you'll find a way to get that wrong too.
The left, especially in the last couple months, has been pushing this notion that Putin is the ultimate strongman who controls every aspect of Russian government, right down to the minutiae level. That, of course, isn't the case. WaPo made this point in a "The Post's View" editorial just a couple months ago. Its also a point that has been made recently by Stratfor. Russian political history if rife with intrigue, in-fighting and the last few decades are no exception.
So while I agree that Putin is the current President and has consolidated his power much like his predecessors, keeping power in Russia is a constant struggle. Therefore, I don't buy this notion that nothing happens in Russia unless Putin knows about it.
That said, could he have orchestrated the hacks? Sure. But the evidence and rationale presented so far is pretty damn flimsy. It is far to flimsy to support drawing conclusions about supposed intent.
What's my motive? I don't care for the BS that has been sold as news and regard this "hacks were designed to favor Trump" story as just another bit of that BS. Nothing you've presented here so far changes that view, and in fact some of it has reinforced that view.
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Good God, you are such a stooge. And a willing one at that. Love strong man leaders do ya? Don't bother answering that, it's obvious you do.
I've worked with Russians who left their country because Putin is EXACTLY what you've been led to think he isn't.
If you love Putin so much, you know where Russia is and you're free to go anytime you like.
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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12-16-2016, 11:38 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer
The response is part of our long term we need to be scared of the Russians strategy. The Establishment will be using this, and lots of other stuff, to minimize Trump's exercise of presidential power.
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"Minimize" Trumps influence?
I hope they neuter that prick.
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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