Nfl ?

[icenine]

I don't like being forced to stand up while an old drinking song is being played to prove my loyalty to the USA or anything else.

Trump the race baiter is using "patriotism" to drive the nation into two camps. His use of the terms "those people" and "SOB" is much more un-American than kneeling while the National Anthem is being played.

What's so bad about kneeling anyway?

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by icenine

I don't like being forced to stand up while an old drinking song is being played to prove my loyalty to the USA or anything else.

Trump the race baiter is using "patriotism" to drive the nation into two camps. His use of the terms "those people" and "SOB" is much more un-American than kneeling while the National Anthem is being played.

What's so bad about kneeling anyway?

I asked this question to a close friend yesterday (who called me a fool btw for not supporting H--> last year ) as to why the national anthem is even played at professional league games such as the NFL. The players are working for their paychecks and not 'playing' nor representing their country.

He then asked me why the pledge of allegiance in schools.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

I asked this question to a close friend yesterday (who called me a fool btw for not supporting H--> last year ) as to why the national anthem is even played at professional league games such as the NFL. The players are working for their paychecks and not 'playing' nor representing their country.

He then asked me why the pledge of allegiance in schools.

The Pledge of Allegiance and the Stars Spangled Banner became popular during the late 1800s and were routinely used in schools and sporting events.
World War II with its accompanying patriotic fervor brought about a legitimization of the Pledge of Allegiance via a Congressional resolution.
I think we owe most of today's fascination with these "oaths" in the manner in which World War II and the Cold War sort of imprinted them onto our national "brain" as it were.

These oaths are always heartwarming to those who fear the "other", be they Communists or whatever. I did the Pledge of Allegiance all through school and never thought about it. I guess if the state you are pledging loyalty to has not harmed you in any way then you probably don't recognize how those who have been harmed by the state may not like it.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by icenine

The Pledge of Allegiance and the Stars Spangled Banner became popular during the late 1800s and were routinely used in schools and sporting events.
World War II with its accompanying patriotic fervor brought about a legitimization of the Pledge of Allegiance via a Congressional resolution.
I think we owe most of today's fascination with these "oaths" in the manner in which World War II and the Cold War sort of imprinted them onto our national "brain" as it were.

These oaths are always heartwarming to those who fear the "other", be they Communists or whatever. I did the Pledge of Allegiance all through school and never thought about it. I guess if the state you are pledging loyalty to has not harmed you in any way then you probably don't recognize how those who have been harmed by the state may not like it.

Thank you for a thoughtful answer Ice. My friend's point of view was that the school children taking the pledge of allegiance even begin to understand to what or whom they are pledging to.

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

Thank you for a thoughtful answer Ice. My friend's point of view was that the school children taking the pledge of allegiance even begin to understand to what or whom they are pledging to.

Basically a mandatory loyalty oath administered to other folks' kids that they don't understand. I'm not crazy about this, but see one vital function of a public education is a common grounding in National civics and culture.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

Basically a mandatory loyalty oath administered to other folks' kids that they don't understand. I'm not crazy about this, but see one vital function of a public education a common grounding in National civics and culture.

Very true.
No matter what level history is taught at (k-12, college, grad school, etc) there is always a tendency to show progression from bad (slavery, bad working conditions, Jim Crow) to better (abolition of slavery, 8-hour day, Voting Rights Act). Or was. In school we learned that government could change things for the better, that there is something good in government. That there is goodness in our nation. Or at least we try to be good.

Yeah a white-washed view. In college you learn the real story and how there is a negative underside to American history. But in general there is progressive belief in how our government is more or less good.

Until now. There is general disdain for the establishment, and Trump and others are knocking down the idea that a strong, forward looking government is good for America. I don't why people who supposedly hate the swamp and big government have a dislike of people who don't want to pledge allegiance to America. To me America is the Constitution flawed that it is.

I mean this clown has decimated the State Department and is upset about a quarterback kneeling during the national anthem.

[bobabode]

Holy moley, just saw America's team (rolls eyes), the Dallas Cowboys including the owner, take a knee. (grin)