A Reason for A War

[one1]

Originally Posted by icenine

I think we tend to view history in the abstract....
put yourself in the actual shoes of a slave and look at the slavery from that viewpoint.

I had this famous professor once who liked to say that you have realize that history happens to REAL people...

John Gaddis
he is at Yale now

I try to use that in all of my dealings with history and people,makes it a little easier to take.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by icenine

I think we tend to view history in the abstract....
put yourself in the actual shoes of a slave and look at the slavery from that viewpoint.

I had this famous professor once who liked to say that you have realize that history happens to REAL people...

John Gaddis
he is at Yale now

We spent a week at Williamsburg VA and got to see what things were like back then. The well to do lived quite confortable=y but the poor and slaves living conditions were bloody awful.

One punisment for law breakers was time in the stocks - summer or winter out in the open. I imaigine that a woman in the stocks would have been fair game.

Rbbin I expect the idea that slaves would not welcome freedom was really meant to mean they would have been ill prepared for it. No trade, no money, no job however were they to survive?

Then there was the Dred Scott case.

But as Chas put it time to put hate aside, though I only arrived here in 1983 I have no dog in this fight. What I can do is treat people honourably and with respect unless they will not allow me to do so.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by icenine

this is basically the old myth that African Americans were better off with Ole Massa back on the Plantation.

there are three trends in American History from the date of 1620 onward

1. Slavery and and the Civil War, Reconstruction and the journey from Jim Crow to Civil Rights.
2. Westward expansion.
3. The rise of American as a great power in relationship to the rest of the world in the 20th century.


you have to remember that many slaves were separated from their families when they were sold. Many were killed by their owners, who were never prosecuted for murder. Many female slaves were raped by their owners, too.
And any relationship between a female slave and a white owner could not have been 100% consensual.

so when I hear comments that blacks after the Civil War were not ready for free citizenship it makes me sort of sick.

Hear, Hear! This is why it is hard for me to control my ire when people start trying to speak of Confederate leadership and the wealthy plantation owners that supported them in wistful, sanctimonious terms. It's almost, not quite, but almost, like listening to someone speak in such terms about any ruthless tyrant. Polite Gentlemen? Perhaps. But, I hear Stalin was quite the charmer at parties and social gatherings too. Manors are meaningless in the big picture. Like my Dad used to say, "Smilin' Bastards.".

Now, someone can try to tell me, "...but that's the way it was and had been for thousands of years.", and they would be correct----to a point. I just happen to believe we had passed that point by the early 1860s. But, some individuals, North and South, just couldn't let go of the idea of humans as property and the notion of their own racial superiority. Still can't, really.

Dave

[one1]

Yes And Slavery continues to thrive to this day.And the Slave I would dare to say is most likely just looked at as a Impersonal Item. just like one would look at a Car or any tool for work.slavery has been with man from the beggining like all the other things you would think civilized societys would permently stamp out.But it still lives.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Rbbin I expect the idea that slaves would not welcome freedom was really meant to mean they would have been ill prepared for it. No trade, no money, no job however were they to survive?

Then there was the Dred Scott case.

If there had been clear, unmistakable, widespread and official efforts that had taken place to educate and prepare them for freedom, then I might see it differently. But AFAIK, there were none, save for a handful of slave owners who had done so and released their slaves. The rest didn't seem at all interested. That tells me the time for waiting for a change of heart is up and you either let go of it or else. Ugly, I know, but how long do you sit by and wait for procrastinators in such a situation?

(Besides. What "Hate"? This is a discussion about history. I hate no one, I just seek unwashed reality.)

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by one1

Yes And Slavery continues to thrive to this day.And the Slave I would dare to say is most likely just looked at as a Impersonal Item. just like one would look at a Car or any tool for work.slavery has been with man from the beggining like all the other things you would think civilized societys would permently stamp out.But it still lives.

Oh, okay, I see. That makes it just fine then. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

Dave

[icenine]

http://www.las.illinois.edu/news/2011/civilwar/

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/16/the_...the_civil_war/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Ca...he_Confederacy

thanks Dave

back to the New Year I heard Salvation Army is open guess I will combat the revisionists blues by seeing if there are any KLH Model Nines there

I am out of this one

[one1]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Oh, okay, I see. That makes it just fine then. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

Dave

Oh hell Dave,
No it dont make it OK,Slavery Is an Abomination to man.I was just saying Slavery is still previlant in society today and has been one of mans form of labor since the beggining of time. C'mon I think you know me better than to imply that.I do get of the mark.but you know how I feel about such matters.

I dont think any one here feels Owning another human is acceptable.for any reason.

[one1]

A debate on Slavery can go in all directions ,All Races On Planet earth Have been Slave holders at one time or another. All of our ancestors are guilty of that.If not directly by lineage.