Ukraine Heats Up

[BlueStreak]

I had an interesting conversation with a friend who is of Ukrainian descent and studied both Ukrainian and Russian history extensively in college and on her own. I had no idea how deeply intertwined and contentious the history between those two countries really is. What we're seeing is just the latest spat in a stormy relationship hundreds of years old.

I also didn't understand that Russians see people of Russian descent living in foreign lands as "Children of Mother Russia", as Mary put it. Even if they are multiple generations removed and have never been to Russia.

Crazy.

And if we get involved, it could get very complicated, confusing and messy for us in a big way.

I don't know, Guys. I'm still thinking we should stay out of it.

Dave

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I don't know, Guys. I'm still thinking we should stay out of it.

Dave

We have no good choices. We either side with a coup government increasingly under the influence of anti-Semitic neo-Nazis or we side with a megalomaniacal Russian leader who dreams of establishing a Eurasian empire. Really, this is the sort of thing that the UN was established for but I doubt they're up to it either.

John

[piece-itpete]

Agreed. Putin's little bs will pay off with his annexing the Crimea, and sadly us ignoring our written commitments.

However eastern Ukraine may be a different story. Stay tuned.

Pete

[merrylander]

Were they really neo-nazis or was it more of a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Thr Finns were considered as the enemy in WW II simply because they fought the Russians and with good reason.

Meanwhile back in the Crimea the Tatars are being wooed by the Chechnens so wait for the suicide bombers.

It is probably time for a rendition of The Merry Minuet,

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Were they really neo-nazis or was it more of a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Thr Finns were considered as the enemy in WW II simply because they fought the Russians and with good reason.

Meanwhile back in the Crimea the Tatars are being wooed by the Chechnens so wait for the suicide bombers.

It is probably time for a rendition of The Merry Minuet,

Check out the two parties, Svoboda and Right Sector.

John

[merrylander]

Not exactly the friendliest bunches are they.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Were they really neo-nazis or was it more of a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Thr Finns were considered as the enemy in WW II simply because they fought the Russians and with good reason.

Meanwhile back in the Crimea the Tatars are being wooed by the Chechnens so wait for the suicide bombers.

It is probably time for a rendition of The Merry Minuet,

They are different from the Finn example. These are real nasty racists.
Probably that is why O bama is so cool to them.

BTW the new government has smartly made the Oligarchs in the east governors to appease the Russians there.

To further ease tension they should drop the delegitimization of the Russian language.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

These are real nasty racists.
Probably that is why O bama is so cool to them.

Oh, dear..........

To further ease tension they should drop the delegitimization of the Russian language.

I think there's little chance of that unless it's imposed as part of a negotiated settlement. Svoboda is profoundly and odiously ideological and anti-Russia is a huge part of that ideology. Any voluntary steps to re-integrate or mollify the Russians would infuriate their own base and also give ammunition to those who, if you can believe it, are to their right.

Speaking of which, I've seen footage of APCs patrolling the streets flying the red and black flag of the old ultra-nationalist UPA (Ukrayins’ka Povstans’ka Armiya, or Ukrainian Insurgent Army). If these guys are really being resurrected, this is very bad news.

John

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Boreas

We have no good choices. We either side with a coup government increasingly under the influence of anti-Semitic neo-Nazis or we side with a megalomaniacal Russian leader who dreams of establishing a Eurasian empire.

Which is why you wait for a winner, hold your nose, and say "we'll acknowledge whomever is left."

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Which is why you wait for a winner, hold your nose, and say "we'll acknowledge whomever is left."

Like it or not, our status as the "world's only remaining super-power" carries with it some responsibilities. We can't just sit on the sidelines.

What we should be doing is trying to mediate the dispute, facilitating a settlement between the two countries. Instead, we immediately jump in bed with the "Not Russian" side even though they may be the greater of two evils here.

This is just another example, as if one were needed, of the control the petroleum industry wields over Western governments. "The Great Game" has never ended and will never end until the last drop of oil and the last cubic foot of gas has been wrenched from the earth.

John