God in the Classroom?

[BlueStreak]

The following was my final post in a thread regarding Public Education on another forum site. I was responding to a man who blamed evertying from rudeness to the decline in church attendence to cheese mold on the public education system.

"The teachers benefits packages don't have a damn thing to do with the kids. That's just the deal they get for doing the job. Religion has no place in a public school. Teaching a child religion, discipline and accountablitiy is supposed to be the PARENTS job. Which brings me to the real root of the problem.....parents who expect the school to "raise" their kids for them. Want you kid to grow up Christian? Fine, take him to church, read the Bible at home. It has NO PLACE in the public schools. The school should NOT be expected to take your undisciplined, spoiled little heathen and teach them manors and etiquette....That's YOUR JOB."

Is it just me, or am I hearing rightwingers blame things on the government that (should) have NOTHING to do with it? The government is to blame because your kid is foul mouthed, lazy and undisciplined? Really? Where are his parents in all of this? What is he learning at home? Maybe he got it from.....YOU?

Maybe I should butt out, because being childless, I have no dogs in this fight.
But, I can't help it, because some of the things I'm hearing these days, just throw me for a loop.

"My kid does nothing but sit in his room, eating Cheezie Curls, playing video games and smoking up all my dope! The damn teachers union is ruining his future!"

Regards,
Dave

[finnbow]

I agree that parents have as much or more to do with childrens' success as any school. OTOH, in inner-city or other impoverished areas where parent(s) have no formal education, no meaningful work experience, etc., positive parental influences don't exist and the schools are forced to act in loco parentis if we, as a society, expect these kids to grow up to be successful/productive.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I agree that parents have as much or more to do with childrens' success as any school. OTOH, in inner-city or other impoverished areas where parent(s) have no formal education, no meaningful work experience, etc., positive parental influences don't exist and the schools are forced to act in loco parentis if we, as a society, expect these kids to grow up to be successful/productive.

I guess I can see that, to a degree. But, this guy is no poor innercity parent. And I might add that I don't understand how poverty is used to justify, or explain poor parenting. My father was raised in a desperately poor family and he had an awesome work ethic.

[piece-itpete]

While I largely agree, there is a minimum of decorum that must be enforced in a classroom. I also agree with our favorite engineer that the inner city districts have special needs.

Pete

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I guess I can see that, to a degree. But, this guy is no poor innercity parent. And I might add that I don't understand how poverty is used to justify, or explain poor parenting. My father was raised in a desperately poor family and he had an awesome work ethic.

I think there are ethnic, cultural and economic reasons why some parents are unable or unwilling to instill a work ethic or a need for education in their offspring. The question is whether this results in a need for the state to step in in the hope of breaking this cycle in certain communities.

In suburban middle and upper class America, I have zero sympathy for parents who fail to instill these values. OTOH, I grudgingly accept that there probably is a societal benefit to the schools acting in loco parentis in areas where ethnic, cultural and economic factors have conspired to leave kids without any hope of success without some sort of intervention. I'm not sure how you break the prevailing dysfunctional cycle in these areas otherwise. Admittedly, however, it sometimes seems like throwing money at an intractable problem.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I think there are ethnic, cultural and economic reasons why some parents are unable or unwilling to instill a work ethic or a need for education in their offspring. The question is whether this results in a need for the state to step in in the hope of breaking this cycle in certain communities.

In suburban middle and upper class America, I have zero sympathy for parents who fail to instill these values. OTOH, I grudgingly accept that there probably is a societal benefit to the schools acting in loco parentis in areas where ethnic, cultural and economic factors have conspired to leave kids without any hope of success without some sort of intervention. I'm not sure how you break the prevailing dysfunctional cycle in these areas otherwise. Admittedly, however, it sometimes seems like throwing money at an intractable problem.

I'll buy that. In cases where there seems to be a familial tradition of apathy towards education and honest work, external influence becomes necessary to "break the cycle" as you put it. And, a teacher who cares and possesses the ability to inspire and motivate can be just the ticket.

Regards,
Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

While I largely agree, there is a minimum of decorum that must be enforced in a classroom. I also agree with our favorite engineer that the inner city districts have special needs.

Pete

True. But I was addressing the depth of expectation. Of course the school must maintain order in it's halls and classrooms. It's when a parent expects the school to take on the entire task of molding a childs persona, even down to that childs core cultural and religious beliefs that I take umbrage. These are things the school should not be involved in. That is the function of family and, to a lesser degree, community.

It's all about degree.

This guy was going on about the public education system creating lazy, undisciplined and "godless" ignoramuses. I think our problems go a bit deeper than to simply pin blame on one of our institutions, then suggest forcing his own beliefs on a very diverse society as the only solution.

Regards,
Dave

[piece-itpete]

We mostly agree on this. I'll add though that a child spends a lot of time in school, and will pick up a lot of things not on the menu.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

BTW, the whole discussion started with an article on the Finnish school system. I don't know where he got his information from, but from what I've read and seen on a recent t.v. segment, he was dead wrong in just about every way possible.

Now, if he had seen the segment on the Singaporean system, he would have been closer to the mark. Far more regimented and demanding. For lack of a better phrase, I'd call that type of system too "mind control-ish" or "ant colony" for my taste. Does it produce a more disciplined lot? Yes, it does. But, it also crushes individuality and free thought.

Regards,
Dave

[BlueStreak]

I'm tired. Been up all night working and then raking leaves when I got home.

Time for a nap.

Dave