Electric Vehicles - Love 'em or Hate 'em?

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by GChief

Yes they are.

Look you finally drug me in.

Same here.

Back in 1976 I raced large scale flat-track RC cars. It had been dominated by gas powered cars, but electrics were really catching on. I had an electric and loved it. I marvelled at how simple they were compared to the gas powered cars. Nothing to "start", nothing to really wear out except bearings, and I could swap out batteries between races or simply fast charge if there was at least 20 minutes to go.

I imagined electric cars were the future, and was quite excited about it. And when I bought my 2001 Chrysler 300M I honestly believed that would be the last ICE car I would probably own. This was solidified with the research I did on motors that reclaimed power when braking. If only an ICE engine could put gas BACK in the tank on the back side of a mountain pass.

Then reality set in. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that electric powered cars will eventually be the future, even if they are along the lines of how train engines work, But I'm not all that convinced "plug in" will ever catch on until we build a LOT more nuclear power plants.

I also think Battery tech needs to come up with a more environmentally friendly battery. I used to have high hopes for graphene based capacitors, and we may eventually see something like that. But ultimately I'm thinking in a 100 year time frame for electric power to really replace ice. And the electricity could come from anything from "plug in", to fuel cells, or even burning petrolium based products.

And how early one adapts it depends on their transportation needs. My daughter in a neighborhood fairly near Seattle's U-district. She has one toddler. I mentioned, when she said she was getting a new SUV, that she might want to look into a mini-van. Well, two weeks later she came home with a Chrysler Pacifica plug in hybrid. They LOVE that thing. Getting the child out with those sliding doors is a piece of cake compared to what all the other "soccer moms" she knows have to deal with. And they even "camped" in it when they went to a concert at the amphitheater near George, WA.

But one reason it is so good for her is that she lives in an urban environment. That car will go 35 miles on a charge, and the ICE engine is the same one as in the non-hybrid. And in her environment, an average trip is just a few miles. Theoretically, she could go weeks or months without the engine ever starting up.

But for people in the middle of Montana or even folks in the suburbs, it would be less advantageous. And regarding full plug in electric vehicles, outside urban areas, they could be a nice second car, or "dad's commuter car".

I just retired from the IT department of one of the major power companies. I can tell you that plug in only works because a small fraction of the population actually uses it. If a significant percentage of the population goes plug-in, either we'll have to drive a lot less - controlled by government taxes and regulations - or get used to brownouts and much higher electric rates.

Governments also need to figure out a way to tax them, since they're not getting it from the gas tax. It could become the "electric" version of dyed diesel. That is, road taxes are applied to electric car charging stations.

I think that, just as ICE became the norm, market factors and technology will eventually put us all in cars in which the final drive is electric.

[barbara]

When I was working, there were a few electric cars in the motor pool. I always avoided them because I just didn't know enough about them and wasn't sure I would feel comfortable driving one. However, I do think it is a good idea. Just not sure how to make it work nationwide. Hopefully, people much smarter than I are working on it.

[bobabode]

"Elon Musk sold about $4 billion worth of Tesla Inc. stock days after reaching a $44 billion deal to buy Twitter Inc.

The Tesla chief executive officer offloaded 4.4 million shares on April 26 and April 27, according to regulatory filings. Musk has now disposed of more than $20 billion worth of stock in the electric-car maker during the last six months."
Bloomberg

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...c156ad3753d133

Hmm. Maybe the wunderkind is losing faith in his car company? I know I'd prefer a Rivian or even a Ford (gasp) over Elon's pick up.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

My late Dad, a civil engineer, used to say the concept of electric cars was great. So simple and robust, just put a motor on each wheel and if one breaks you still have three.

They are a bit more complicated than that it turns out!

If I sold my current 'good' car ('91 420sel) and it brought in enough I'd sure consider an older model S.

I also looked into converting my toy, an old Spitfire, to electric but there's no kit and I just don't have the will to do that custom work (assuming I could actually do it). Plus I read the diff doesn't hold up well to the extra torque .

No matter what when I run a new electrical line to the garage I'm going to way oversize it for future charging.

Here's a guy that dismantles cars. He's awesome. He's torn into many electric cars with good reviews. But check out how many coolant hoses the new 'Mustang' has - a tuneup nightmare!

https://youtu.be/C1dQtlrI7uU

And the future may still be hydrogen? Stay tuned

Now I've got a hankering Led Zepplin...Damn you!

[BigElCat]

The Rivian would be my choice, but I won't be able to afford one in my life time.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Hmm. Maybe the wunderkind is losing faith in his car company? I know I'd prefer a Rivian or even a Ford (gasp) over Elon's pick up.

It's also possible he's lost faith in electric in general. It's still not ready for prime time. It may take decades of technology improvements to come up with the electric equivalent of the Model T*. "Plug in" electric has not hit that point yet. And even hybrids are challenged by what it would mean to be mass producing the batteries they use. They need new battery tech for that to happen.

*That is, it puts it in the hands of the masses.

[Not Insane]

Here is a great article on the OP's subject:

Ludicrous’: Buttigieg Watches As Manchin Throws Cold Water On Biden’s EV Dreams

A snip:

Manchin expressed concerns that the administration was focusing too much on electric vehicle incentives rather than shoring up the domestic battery and critical mineral supply chains, during a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg on Thursday. He noted that China, which controls the vast majority of global critical mineral mining and refining needed for renewable energy tech, could use its leverage over the U.S. for geopolitical reasons.

“There’s a waiting list for EVs right now with the fuel price at $4,” Manchin told Buttigieg. “But they still want us to throw $5,000 or $7,000 or $12,000 credit to buy an electric vehicle.”

Also: Ford Reports Devastating Losses Thanks To Electric Vehicle Gamble

And a snip from that article:

Rivian has posted massive profit losses of its own and its share price has plummeted nearly 70% over the last six months. The value of Ford’s roughly 102 million Rivian shares has fallen from about $17.5 billion to $3.2 billion since November.

I've said before that I believe that electric final drive is probably the answer of the future, but we may be "too soon" pushing the tech.

[piece-itpete]

Bob, LOL!

Pete

[Not Insane]

I was mentioning battery tech in a previous post. I just came across this video that gets into the tech of a new battery offering that may be the replacement for the Li-ion batteries. 28,000 battery life:

Nuclear/nano diamond batteries are here

They won't replace everything, especially large applications - yet - because they charge and discharge too slowly. But that is now. The future has yet to be written.

[Dondilion]

Electric vehicles aren't just vehicles, they are big batteries.

https://vox.com/recode/22872237/bide...s-clean-energy