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  #11  
Old 11-09-2018, 08:19 AM
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Oerets Oerets is offline
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He legally purchased a firearm, we should all agree should not of been able too. I see a problem to be addressed. Through enhanced screening, training. To use a word oversight!
As a gun owner I just don't want to accept these events, throw my hands up give in. Rather do something, will it be right the first time? Second? Third? We will get it right in the end, once we get started on sensible limitations on lethal toys.
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2018, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
The system had contact with this guy, but failed to take his guns, failed to commit him to treatment, failed to see him as a danger and even watch him a little. I want us to stop failing to stop these people..


I saw that on the news....

But, it really is very tricky to declare a person a danger to others or them self. I am very familiar with the local assessment team in our county and there are so many ways this system fails us.

There are too many times when the team conducts an interview and the person can maintain during that interview and give all the right answers. The minute the team leaves, the facade is dropped and despite several surprise visits, it is still a hard call to make.

This mass shooting issue creates ripples all through society. We need better gun laws, more mental health programs, more education in schools about the dangers of guns and when and how to use them with respect.


(Stepping off my soap box now)
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2018, 10:02 AM
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Stop assuming Americas gun lovers give a damn because, obviously, most of them don't. "Thoughts and Prayers, Thoughts and Prayers, Thoughts and Prayers.....", blah, blah, blah, blah...…...Oh, STFU with that cop out already. Yesterday, I listened to a man bitch about some trouble he had clearing a background check for a hand gun in North Carolina...………...BECAUSE HE HAS A HISTORY OF VIOLENT BEHAVIOR. Barroom brawls, road rage, a fight he got into with his neighbor, beating his girlfriend, multiple arrests with convictions...………. And others were agreeing with him. Seriously. One man even said, "He absolutely still has a right to own guns and I have a right to shoot him if he comes after me!".

Who doesn't see what's wrong with this picture?

Come on, people, this is insane. ".....shall not be infringed." includes protecting gun ownership rights for loudmouth bullies who go around picking fights and beating the shit out of others? Really? Is a psychological profile even necessary with such a monster?
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 11-09-2018 at 10:07 AM.
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2018, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbara View Post
I saw that on the news....

But, it really is very tricky to declare a person a danger to others or them self. I am very familiar with the local assessment team in our county and there are so many ways this system fails us.

There are too many times when the team conducts an interview and the person can maintain during that interview and give all the right answers. The minute the team leaves, the facade is dropped and despite several surprise visits, it is still a hard call to make.

This mass shooting issue creates ripples all through society. We need better gun laws, more mental health programs, more education in schools about the dangers of guns and when and how to use them with respect.


(Stepping off my soap box now)
Appreciate the benefit of your experience here, Barbara.

My own thinking is OK, some number of people will be wrongly caught up in coercive mental health commitment if we relax safeguards. That is bad. OTOH, it's also very bad to be shot dead in a nightclub. As long as we're smart and careful and able to keep the number of wrong commitments down to "dozens," I think the trade-off worth it.

And certainly when there's more doubt we do things short of commitment, just like visit people, watch them, try to be helpful on a voluntary basis.

And very certainly, the threshold for taking someone's guns, at least temporarily, should be quite low.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:20 AM
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It's a Constitutional birthright entitlement relic of the 18th Century with no real contemporary purpose that has become a liability. By logic, it should have been repealed after failing the stress test of the war of secession, but that did not happen.
So, here we are, dealing with the consequences of an entitlement that lost its purpose to a fantasy of another bloody rebellion.
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Last edited by Pio1980; 11-09-2018 at 11:27 AM.
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:44 AM
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If nukes chemical, bio weapons were around when they enacted the 2nd, would they also be available now?

Personally I don't want to live in the wild wild west, rather a civilized society. Have no problem having to register or train, license be evaluated.

We are better then this! For a country that claims the be the best we should be truthful and admit the problem and fix it.
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2018, 12:23 PM
Chicks Chicks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pio1980 View Post
It's a Constitutional birthright entitlement relic of the 18th Century with no real contemporary purpose that has become a liability. By logic, it should have been repealed after failing the stress test of the war of secession, but that did not happen.
So, here we are, dealing with the consequences of an entitlement that lost its purpose to a fantasy of another bloody rebellion.
Firearms at the time could, in the hands of an expert, fire MAYBE three rounds in a minute, requiring reloading between each round. They were extremely inaccurate. Mass killings would be impossible with them. These are what this amendment assumed, not today’s firearms, which should not be legal outside military and law enforcement, IMO.
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  #18  
Old 11-09-2018, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
Appreciate the benefit of your experience here, Barbara.



My own thinking is OK, some number of people will be wrongly caught up in coercive mental health commitment if we relax safeguards. That is bad. OTOH, it's also very bad to be shot dead in a nightclub. As long as we're smart and careful and able to keep the number of wrong commitments down to "dozens," I think the trade-off worth it.



And certainly when there's more doubt we do things short of commitment, just like visit people, watch them, try to be helpful on a voluntary basis.



And very certainly, the threshold for taking someone's guns, at least temporarily, should be quite low.


I hear what you are saying and do not necessarily disagree.
But.... the person wrongly caught up in the system suffers too. That record follows them, the stigma haunts them. And it is way to easy for someone who has a beef with another to make the accusation that starts things in motion.

The system is broke in many ways. No easy answers.

I think the only way to begin is to consider the common denominator in every single mass shooting. And that could be a starting point.
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2018, 09:49 PM
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Those who fail to see or feel the need for action before and now should heed history's lessons. For history has time and time again shown a backlash effect. One day an event so horrendous will happen, then more drastic extreme restriction will occur. Due to inaction and waiting, not wanting to make the hard choices.
We have become weak, for I doubt our predecessors would not of waited.
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  #20  
Old 11-09-2018, 10:15 PM
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Gun fetishists are a clear and present danger to the citizens of our country.
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