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11-09-2016, 11:19 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine
Oh the I told you so moment.
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I didn't say that but, since you mentioned it, I certainly did and early enough for you and anyone else here to vote for Bernie in the primaries.
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11-09-2016, 11:27 AM
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Rational Anarchist
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
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The Democrats who chose Hillary over Bernie are not New Dealers and will be blaming Trump for what is their failure.
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
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11-09-2016, 11:27 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sierras
Posts: 14,209
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Democrats Inc. was committed to elect the first woman president to succeed the first black president despite the warning signs. In basketball, this is like letting your streak shooter continue to throw up three's after he has gone cold. You will lose the game and the coach gets the blame, not the shooter.
Hillary Clinton went cold after email/FBI saga. Comey did not help matters from either of his two press conferences, especially the first one. Now Comey has turned into a hero rather than a villain.
I agree that after Comey's first press conference, she should have stepped down. The the ill advised 'deplorable' tag gave her opposition a rallying cry like Romney's 47%.
__________________
White Christian Nationalism:
Freedom for us, order for everyone else, and violence for those who transgress.
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11-09-2016, 11:32 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer
Lessons learned matter.
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The lesson: this was a change election. Trump was in effect a third party candidate. He was nearly as critical of the Republicans as he was the Democrats. His whole message was that the system was rigged against the people and only an outsider like him could fix things. (He even said that very thing.)
The Democrats needed to field a strong change candidate of their own and they has an ideal one in Bernie but, because they had been planning on nominating the first female candidate from a major party since 2008, the party sabotaged the candidacy of a true change candidate who would have appealed to many of the people who voted for Trump, the non-deplorables, and nominated Hillary, a poster child for the American political aristocracy.
What the fuck did they think would happen?
Last edited by Boreas; 11-09-2016 at 02:56 PM.
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11-09-2016, 11:35 AM
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Rational Anarchist
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
The lesson: this was a change election. Trump was in effect a third party candidate. He was nearly as critical of the Republicans as he was the Democrats. His whole message was that the system was rugged against the people and only an outsider like him could fix things. (He even said that very thing.)
The Democrats needed to field a strong change candidate of their own and they has an ideal one in Bernie but, because they had been planning on nominating the first female candidate from a major party since 2008, the party sabotaged the candidacy of a true change candidate who would have appealed to many of the people who voted for Trump, the non-deplorables, and nominated Hillary, a poster child for the American political aristocracy.
What the fuck did they think would happen?
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That they could fool enough of the people.
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Last edited by nailer; 11-09-2016 at 11:44 AM.
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11-09-2016, 11:36 AM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,170
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Do not be fooled by the lopsided electoral college result. Look at the popular vote. Hillary's performance was not so awful as every says today. Lots of those states were won by tiny margins. Hillary almost pulled it off, change year or no.
Hell, Interstate Crosscheck may have made the difference.
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If you Love Liberty, you must Hate Trump!
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11-09-2016, 11:45 AM
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Jigsawed
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
The lesson: this was a change election. Trump was in effect a third party candidate. He was nearly as critical of the Republicans as he was the Democrats. His whole message was that the system was rugged against the people and only an outsider like him could fix things. (He even said that very thing.)
The Democrats needed to field a strong change candidate of their own and they has an ideal one in Bernie but, because they had been planning on nominating the first female candidate from a major party since 2008, the party sabotaged the candidacy of a true change candidate who would have appealed to many of the people who voted for Trump, the non-deplorables, and nominated Hillary, a poster child for the American political aristocracy.
What the fuck did they think would happen?
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To make matters worse Wikileaks confirmed the suspicions of the independent voters who went heavily for Bernie.
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11-09-2016, 11:50 AM
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Jigsawed
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
Do not be fooled by the lopsided electoral college result. Look at the popular vote. Hillary's performance was not so awful as every says today. Lots of those states were won by tiny margins. Hillary almost pulled it off, change year or no.
Hell, Interstate Crosscheck may have made the difference.
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Hillary was up against Trump!
Her performance was awful.
Last edited by Dondilion; 11-09-2016 at 12:07 PM.
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11-09-2016, 12:56 PM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondilion
Bullshit! Hillary was up against Trump.
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Bullshit? You're a bit quick on the trigger there, Dondi. Let's look at the data:
In table, first three columns are the vote % received, by Clinton, Trump, and all others together. Fourth column is trump's margin of victory over Clinton. If column 3 exceeds column 4, column 5 shows the number of electoral votes potentially flipped if enough 'other' votes had gone to Clinton instead.
Make of it what you will. Mainly, I think this shows that Hillary was not an awful candidate, she was a competitive candidate. But she was ultimately defeated by her own negatives driving votes to third party candidates.
I stand by my claim that if all who didn't want Trump had voted for Hillary, we wouldn't have Trump.
__________________
If you Love Liberty, you must Hate Trump!
Last edited by donquixote99; 11-09-2016 at 12:59 PM.
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11-09-2016, 01:08 PM
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Rational Anarchist
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
Bullshit? You're a bit quick on the trigger there, Dondi. Let's look at the data:
In table, first three columns are the vote % received, by Clinton, Trump, and all others together. Fourth column is trump's margin of victory over Clinton. If column 3 exceeds column 4, column 5 shows the number of electoral votes potentially flipped if enough 'other' votes had gone to Clinton instead.
Make of it what you will. Mainly, I think this shows that Hillary was not an awful candidate, she was a competitive candidate. But she was ultimately defeated by her own negatives driving votes to third party candidates.
I stand by my claim that if all who didn't want Trump had voted for Hillary, we wouldn't have Trump.
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Libertarians voting Democrat? Give me a break. You're assumptions and supporting analysis are flawed. Check out my response to your similar claim in Grumpy's thread for a reality check.
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
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