Ahhhh, now it's tha "Deep State"! Oooooo..............

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

So you're suggesting that Moyers agrees with you? That the "deep State" really is, as you put it, nothing more that the "career professionals" inside government agencies?

I'm pretty sure that NOT what Moyers is saying here, for example:

We are faced with two disagreeable implications. First, that the Deep State is so heavily entrenched, so well protected by surveillance, firepower, money and its ability to co-opt resistance that it is almost impervious to change. Second, that just as in so many previous empires, the Deep State is populated with those whose instinctive reaction to the failure of their policies is to double down on those very policies in the future. Iraq was a failure briefly camouflaged by the wholly propagandistic success of the so-called surge; this legerdemain allowed for the surge in Afghanistan, which equally came to naught. Undeterred by that failure, the functionaries of the Deep State plunged into Libya; the smoking rubble of the Benghazi consulate, rather than discouraging further misadventure, seemed merely to incite the itch to bomb Syria.

I'm not a Moyers fan, a person I find to be a far left alarmist for the most part. I'll watch some of his feature shows on PBS, knowing full well the POV he has.

I disagree with his point above. Those screw-ups he notes were not the fault of the "Deep State." They were the fault of the political leaders in power at the time. Blaming the Iraq War or our Libya misadventures on the Deep State is a cop-out for those who held political power.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I'm not a Moyers fan, a person I find to be a far left alarmist for the most part. I'll watch some of his feature shows on PBS, knowing full well the POV he has.

I disagree with his point above. Those screw-ups he notes were not the fault of the "Deep State." They were the fault of the political leaders in power at the time. Blaming the Iraq War or our Libya misadventures on the Deep State is a cop-out for those who held political power.

So you agreed with him until you disagreed with him???

By the way, it was the "deep state" folks - at least the article defines them - that assured Bush that the intel on Iraq was "a slam dunk".

Not to get off track here, but it was my point - in opposition to the OP - that the term "deep state" was not somehow an invention of the current admin or its flack catchers. It has been around a while, and likely comes from the Turk expression "derin devlet", so it's likely not a term that even has its origin in the US.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

So you agreed with him until you disagreed with him???

By the way, it was the "deep state" folks - at least the article defines them - that assured Bush that the intel on Iraq was "a slam dunk".

No, it wasn't. It was CIA Director George Tenet, a political appointee, along with a cabal of other political appointees (e.g., Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz). The career analysts in the CIA was highly skeptical of Dubya's claims, but were overridden by the Dubya administration (refer to Downing St. memo and the Valerie Plame affair).

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

No, it wasn't. It was CIA Director George Tenet, a political appointee, along with a cabal of other political appointees (e.g., Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz). The career analysts in the CIA was highly skeptical of Dubya's claims, but were overridden by the Dubya administration (refer to Downing St. memo and the Valerie Plame affair).

Nope.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.1559ad888c15

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Nope.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.1559ad888c15

Typical CYA (or CIA) revisionism. Any assertion that the Bush administration was dragged, kicking and screaming, by low level CIA analysts into the Iraq War is pure ahistorical bullshit.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Typical CYA (or CIA) revisionism. Any assertion that the Bush administration was dragged, kicking and screaming, by low level CIA analysts into the Iraq War is pure ahistorical bullshit.

...and by a deep state guy no less....

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Any assertion that the Bush administration was dragged, kicking and screaming, by low level CIA analysts into the Iraq War is pure ahistorical bullshit.

GS 15's do what they are told.

They have kid's tuition, othodontists bills, big mortages (have you sen the real estate prices in the DC area) and retirement to save for.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

GS 15's do what they are told.

They have kid's tuition, othodontists bills, big mortages (have you seen the real estate prices in the DC area) and retirement to save for.

I did all of the above and always spoke truth to power. I've also been involved in investigations of malfeasance/corruption exposed by internal whistle-blowers. It takes guts to be a whistle-blower or leaker and they're generally few in number due to the risk one takes on to do so. OTOH, Trump instability, incompetence and irrationality are considered by many to be a threat to the country and they're acting accordingly. If he's clean, he'll be fine (and far fewer of them would exist). Otherwise, they'll eat his lunch.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

GS 15's do what they are told.

They have kid's tuition, othodontists bills, big mortages (have you sen the real estate prices in the DC area) and retirement to save for.

So they are told. They don't do the telling. Right?

It was Bush's war, not the GS-15's war, right?

[nailer]

Originally Posted by whell

So you agreed with him until you disagreed with him???

In a way you forced him to disagree with himself.