I'm going to make an interesting hypothesis here

[Charles]

I would lay odds that there's going to be a mushroom cloud somewhere in the not too distant future. And as bad as that would be, there are so many low tech ways to disrupt society, blow a couple of bridges, a few transmission lines, and a sizeable portion of society will be living in the stone age inside of their McMansions.

And no doubt there are people lying awake at nights dreaming up ways to do this.

Chas

[Twodogs]

Why then is the USA doing everything in it's power (diplomatically) to keep Israel from destroying Iran's nuclear facilities. The window for them to take decisive action is slowly closing. I would think that we would at least be supplying arms, and jets if needed. I don't get it at all, as we supposedly don't want a nuclear armed Iran either. Could someone splain this to me?

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

Why then is the USA doing everything in it's power (diplomatically) to keep Israel from destroying Iran's nuclear facilities. The window for them to take decisive action is slowly closing. I would think that we would at least be supplying arms, and jets if needed. I don't get it at all, as we supposedly don't want a nuclear armed Iran either. Could someone splain this to me?

Well, it wasn't that long ago that Israel left a big hole in the ground over in Syria. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a B2 left a big hole in the ground over in Syria, and Israel took credit for it.

I still think that the Iraq War was all about containing Iran and putting pressure on the Saudis, and had nothing to do with removing Saddam.

Chas

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by Charles

had nothing to do with removing Saddam.

Chas

Well, you have to admit, it was a nice bonus seeing him get his neck stretched.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

Well, you have to admit, it was a nice bonus seeing him get his neck stretched.

Sometimes, good things happen to bad people.

Chas

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

Well, you have to admit, it was a nice bonus seeing him get his neck stretched.

Was it? For all it's faults Iraq was a secular country that as long as politics and protest didn't go beyond a certain point, allowed the population to pretty much do is it liked; women wearing fashionable clothes and driving cars etc.

Compare that to now; far from being a barrier between Iran and the rest of the world it looks like it's becoming part of it, at least as far as religion goes. We went in there all guns blazing, destroyed the infrastructure, disbanded the police and the entire military, then expected some kind of cloned Western democracy to grow from the ruins. What the hell were we playing at?

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Combwork

Was it? For all it's faults Iraq was a secular country that as long as politics and protest didn't go beyond a certain point, allowed the population to pretty much do is it liked; women wearing fashionable clothes and driving cars etc.

Compare that to now; far from being a barrier between Iran and the rest of the world it looks like it's becoming part of it, at least as far as religion goes. We went in there all guns blazing, destroyed the infrastructure, disbanded the police and the entire military, then expected some kind of cloned Western democracy to grow from the ruins. What the hell were we playing at?

Rather interesting how people forget their own history. The democratic republic that is (or was) the USA was not imposed from without, it was seized from within. You cannot "give" people democracy, they must take it for themselves.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Combwork

Was it? For all it's faults Iraq was a secular country that as long as politics and protest didn't go beyond a certain point, allowed the population to pretty much do is it liked; women wearing fashionable clothes and driving cars etc.

Compare that to now; far from being a barrier between Iran and the rest of the world it looks like it's becoming part of it, at least as far as religion goes. We went in there all guns blazing, destroyed the infrastructure, disbanded the police and the entire military, then expected some kind of cloned Western democracy to grow from the ruins. What the hell were we playing at?

QFT, good post.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Combwork

Was it? For all it's faults Iraq was a secular country that as long as politics and protest didn't go beyond a certain point, allowed the population to pretty much do is it liked; women wearing fashionable clothes and driving cars etc.

Compare that to now; far from being a barrier between Iran and the rest of the world it looks like it's becoming part of it, at least as far as religion goes. We went in there all guns blazing, destroyed the infrastructure, disbanded the police and the entire military, then expected some kind of cloned Western democracy to grow from the ruins. What the hell were we playing at?

Well, the Middle East is the ultimate tar baby. I can see a certain amount of logic applied to what the Bush Administration has attempted to do over there, war is simply diplomacy by other means. Perhaps too ambitious, perhaps not ambitious enough. Germany and Japan didn't show up at the table with their hats in their hands until they got their asses kicked up between their shoulder blades. Been our buddies every since.

Hell, the Muslims and the Christians have only been slugging it out for about a thousand years. Then the powers that be gave Palestine to the Jews. Talk about adding a wild card to a hot game!!!

Shoulda give the Jews Mexico. They would've cleaned the place up and made it prosperous, and in short order. I like 'em, they're tough nuts.

Back to the Middle East. We need 'em, they got the oil. Now we can talk to them, shoot 'em up, don't too much matter what is done, we're still gonna be a loggerheads with 'em for another thousand years. Until we all convert to Islam, or they come into the 21st century. And even if the West were to eliminate the need for their oil, they're still going to be players. Just a lot poorer players.

I have no idea as to what will work in the Middle East. Everything that can, and has been tried is no more than adding another turd to your shit stew. Besides, if there were only two humans left on the planet, they'd find a way to be at one another's throats about something. It's our nature.

BTW, it's cool for this time of year, and fixin't to get colder and start raining. Least in Missouri.

Chas

[JCricket]

Originally Posted by Charles

Well, it wasn't that long ago that Israel left a big hole in the ground over in Syria. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a B2 left a big hole in the ground over in Syria, and Israel took credit for it.

I still think that the Iraq War was all about containing Iran and putting pressure on the Saudis, and had nothing to do with removing Saddam.

Chas

I'll agree with this much, and could come up with far more colorful depictions of why the war in Iraq was started. I'll leave it at that for now.