Civility? It didn't last a week...

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Like the blood libel?

Pete

See post #17. I think the biggest issue (if there's an issue at all) with "blood libel" is that it is yet another indicator of her complete cluelessness.

[piece-itpete]

“They say it's a government takeover of health care, a big lie just like Goebbels," Cohen said. "You say it enough, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, and eventually, people believe it. Like blood libel. That's the same kind of thing."

It reminds me of Hitler burning down the Reichstag.

Pete

[finnbow]

For the record, blood libel (not Sarah's ill-advised use of it) is an example of the repeated telling of a lie for propaganda purposes (with regard to what Jews did with babies' blood).

[piece-itpete]

Excellent example of what the GOP is doing.

But that's not inflammitory

It reminds me of the holocaust.

Pete

[finnbow]

Calling someone down for constantly spewing lies, Goebbels-style, in a public policy debate is the right thing to do IMHO. The blatant and repeated use of lies needs to be exposed. That's the crux of the First Amendment.

[piece-itpete]

Like Obama's campaign promises? Reminds me of Stalin.

After the apoplectic fits from the left over the past few weeks, I can't believe you guys. I've seen less twisting at a contortionist festival. I have to admit, it's kinda enjoyable.

But just so I understand - it's OK for these kinds of statements as long as the speaker believes them to be true?

Pete

[finnbow]

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't buy into the GOP's efforts in the past week to cast a moral equivalency between their own gun-based eliminationist rhetoric and the true, but stinging words of these two Dem's.

BTW, Cohen was referring to the fact that the Pulitzer Prize Winning PolitiFact.com called the concerted effort by the GOP to label the PPACA as "a government takeover of health care" as the 2010 Lie of the Year.

To wit:

• The phrase appears more than 90 times on Boehner's website, GOPLeader.gov.

• It was mentioned eight times in the 48-page Republican campaign platform "A Pledge to America" as part of their plan to "repeal and replace the government takeover of health care."

• The Republican National Committee's website mentions a government takeover of health care more than 200 times.

Goebbels would be proud.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't buy into the GOP's efforts in the past week to cast a moral equivalency between their own gun-based eliminationist rhetoric and the true, but stinging words of these two Dem's.

BTW, Cohen was referring to the fact that the Pulitzer Prize Winning PolitiFact.com called the concerted effort by the GOP to label the PPACA as "a government takeover of health care" as the 2010 Lie of the Year.

To wit:

• The phrase appears more than 90 times on Boehner's website, GOPLeader.gov.

• It was mentioned eight times in the 48-page Republican campaign platform "A Pledge to America" as part of their plan to "repeal and replace the government takeover of health care."

• The Republican National Committee's website mentions a government takeover of health care more than 200 times.

Goebbels would be proud.

Yes, Goebbels would be proud of PPACA, and Cohen's attempted to mis-characterize it. Perhaps, like many Congressional yes-men who vote for bills they've not even read, he just has no clue what he's taking about.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Yes, Goebbels would be proud of PPACA, and Cohen's attempted to mis-characterize it. Perhaps, like many Congressional yes-men who vote for bills they've not even read, he just has no clue what he's taking about.

Congratulations. You could this month's award for standing logic on its head.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Congratulations. You could this month's award for standing logic on its head.

Really? I don't want to veer this thread off-topic by pulling it into healthcare, but let's just try one bullet - point (oops, incivility alert) section from the link you posted:

"Government takeover" conjures a European approach where the government owns the hospitals and the doctors are public employees. But the law Congress passed, parts of which have already gone into effect, relies largely on the free market:

• Employers will continue to provide health insurance to the majority of Americans through private insurance companies."

True enough, until you consider that PPACA now tells insurance carriers what their profit margins are for their medical insurance products. The carriers must also provide, and are not allowed to attribute additional premium to health care reform, mandated coverages for dependents, and cannot reject coverage for minors with pre-ex conditions. In 2014, the carriers will not be able to reject anyone with pre-ex. So much for "relying on the free market."

Now, future provisions of PPACA will kick in that will drive up the cost of coverage / premiums due to additional mandated coverage provisions, and/or taxes on medical device providers, hospitals, etc. Cap this off in 2018 when the government slaps and addition excise tax on "Cadillac plans." The joke about the Cadillac plan tax is that if you look at the future cost of premium based on even modest renewals between now and 2018, the cost of today's "average" cost group medical plan will approximate the cost of a "Cadillac plan" using PPACA's definitions.

So, another 20% tax on top of the cost of future premium, as well as additional burdensome administrative requirements imposed by PPACA on carriers and group insurance plans, and you've got a stew the simply exacerbates the issues in our current system, and likely has folks screaming for relief (do I hear "the government option") on or before 2018.

As someone once told me: "Facts are stubborn things..." You can certainly debate the relative merits of PPACA, but it is a huge intrusion into the delivery of health insurance, and looks very much like a poison pill.