Watching as Iraq burns.

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by Charles

....

Saddam was the turd in the punchbowl. Nobody wanted us there, we didn't want to be there (although I'll get an argument on that one), but we were the only plumber in town who could guarantee that shit would once again flow downhill.

It's a rotten game, always has been, and it always will. But as long as there are two of us "enlightened" homo sapiens and one lousy can of pork and beans, some poor bastard is going to get his throat slit.

Chas

The best explanation I've heard, thanks Chas.

Originally Posted by bobabode

I've always suspected that Iraq and a few of the neighboring countries were far too large as envisioned by the British, nature taking it's course. I have similar thoughts about Texas.

Perhaps Cal-if-orn-eye-A too.

Originally Posted by Twodogs

I don't disagree with you at all, but I doubt they would make any efforts whatsoever to spare our women and children, ..... 100 of Japanese or German lives (what changed and when). Obviously Truman did, and we haven't had any trouble out of the Japanese since.

I read an excellent article just after 9-11 that put forth a great argument for nuking Afghanistan in retaliation. I should've kept a copy.

Originally Posted by Bigerik

And there are a WHOLE lot of people in the world who would switch Bin Ladens name with Bush's, and leave all the rest the same.

I'd argue that there are a WHOLE lot of people in the world that are idiots

But no one would listen anyway.

Pete

[merrylander]

Where we screwed up was trying to give Iraq a central government when what the need is a federation of three states; Kurds, Sunnis and Shia, otherwise there will be constant bombings and eventual civil war.

[neophyte]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Where we screwed up was trying to give Iraq a central government when what the need is a federation of three states; Kurds, Sunnis and Shia, otherwise there will be constant bombings and eventual civil war.

"where we screwed up" is where we always screw up - yet again we fell for the vainglorious notion that we have the slightest idea that we know what is best for a culture unlike ours, invading the land of said culture, and trying to force our ways of life and thinking down their throats.

We don't have the right, reason or responsibility for determining the way of life and government for any other nation besides our own, yet we discuss the installation of regimes in other nations like its everyday business.

Oh, that's right. It is everyday business for us.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by neophyte

"where we screwed up" is where we always screw up - yet again we fell for the vainglorious notion that we have the slightest idea that we know what is best for a culture unlike ours, invading the land of said culture, and trying to force our ways of life and thinking down their throats.

We don't have the right, reason or responsibility for determining the way of life and government for any other nation besides our own, yet we discuss the installation of regimes in other nations like its everyday business.

Oh, that's right. It is everyday business for us.

I thought it was more like we got tired of fucking around with them.

Sad thing is, the only people we taught a lesson was ourselves.

Chas

[neophyte]

Originally Posted by Charles

I thought it was more like we got tired of fucking around with them.

Sad thing is, the only people we taught a lesson was ourselves.

Chas

as I see it, the sad thing(s) are that we as a nation are deluded enough to think we know it all and are charged with the responsibility of torturing other cultures until they submit to our ignorance.

that, and given the entire repub prez election platform is built on a foundation of ramped up war rhetoric directed at Iran (with other countries TBD I'm sure), it appears that many of us haven't learned jack shit from the Iran debacle. Couple that with the ever stricter sanctions based on unfounded fears and the other acts of war we've been committing there, and it don't look good for the enlightenment cause.

[BlueStreak]

Winning hearts and minds-----at the point of a gun?

But, I will say that with Militarist Japan, Nazi Germany and Il Duce's Facsist Italy there was no choice. Chamberlain had exhausted all diplomatic efforts and mucked about with it for far too long. There comes a time when you must put a bullet in the fanatics head. Usually when he has gone beyond the reach of reason. Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo were all way beyond that point by the time we jumped in.

That being said, I do hear the drumbeats for yet another preemptive action coming from the insane clown possee on the right. With both England and France being nuclear powers, why in the world should we even have to consider nuking Iran ourselves? Iran doesn't possess the capability to strike the CONUS, AFAIK. The Israelis would probably revel in having the opportunity to hit Iran. But, no. We'll chose to do it ourselves, just so we can look all big and bad.

Stupid.

Dave

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Winning hearts and minds-----at the point of a gun?

But, I will say that with Militarist Japan, Nazi Germany and Il Duce's Facsist Italy there was no choice. Chamberlain had exhausted all diplomatic efforts and mucked about with it for far too long. There comes a time when you must put a bullet in the fanatics head. Usually when he has gone beyond the reach of reason. Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo were all way beyond that point by the time we jumped in.

That being said, I do hear the drumbeats for yet another preemptive action coming from the insane clown possee on the right. With both England and France being nuclear powers, why in the world should we even have to consider nuking Iran ourselves? Iran doesn't possess the capability to strike the CONUS, AFAIK. The Israelis would probably revel in having the opportunity to hit Iran. But, no. We'll chose to do it ourselves, just so we can look all big and bad.

Stupid.

Dave

I'm not so sure, we've been sending / selling them a buttload of bunker busters this last month (like thousands of them). I heard on the news last night that Iran has opened up a second refining plant that is underground in a hardened bunker. I say Israel needs to shit or get off the pot. Things aren't going to get any better than they are right this second. I'd say piss on the hardened bunkers, and send the first 10k pounder right up Ihockedmydinnerjackets asshole.

[neophyte]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

I'm not so sure, we've been sending / selling them a buttload of bunker busters this last month (like thousands of them). I heard on the news last night that Iran has opened up a second refining plant that is underground in a hardened bunker. I say Israel needs to shit or get off the pot. Things aren't going to get any better than they are right this second. I'd say piss on the hardened bunkers, and send the first 10k pounder right up Ihockedmydinnerjackets asshole.

yeah, we've been out of Iraq for a few weeks, time for the next idiotic war of adventure. I mean it would be downright unamerican to not bomb the fuck out of another country for doing exactly what we have been doing on a far grander scale for sixty years or so. Who the fuck do these people think they are?

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by neophyte

yeah, we've been out of Iraq for a few weeks, time for the next idiotic war of adventure. I mean it would be downright unamerican to not bomb the fuck out of another country for doing exactly what we have been doing on a far grander scale for sixty years or so. Who the fuck do these people think they are?

Yeh, exactly! I'm with you bro! Raise the black flag and give them burnt bodies and scorched earth.

[BlueStreak]

Jay, (All) I posted a thread with some pics over in the Tube Forum. They're operational now. "It--is--ALIVE!!!!", to quote the good doctor.

Dave