Smoking ban

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I have always been a considerate smoker. But your car exhaust is killing me.

But the exhaust from that land yacht you just bought is just dandy, I guess.

Given the health risks associated with smoking, including second hand smoke, the only way to be a considerate smoker is to never smoke in the proximity of another human being.

"1st smokers.
Then fat people.
Then you."

New Deal era saying

Ah, the nameless dread that somehow, someday, someway the government's gonna get you!

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

In Maryland (or maybe just Montgomery County, MD), the smoking ban in bars and restaurants was justified as an occupational safety and health issue (i.e., not exposing employees to the hazards of second hand smoke). On its face, it had nothing to do with the patrons. That said, as a non-smoker, I'm good with it.

Right. Just like the ordinance Pete spoke of in Cleveland. If a location is anyone's workplace their presence there is a requirement of employment. They can't simply opt to leave if a smoker shows up. Frankly, I don't think anyone should be made to choose between endangering their health and simply being in a communal setting.

John

[piece-itpete]

It's nice to be able to quit a job you don't like.

Originally Posted by Boreas

But the exhaust from that land yacht you just bought is just dandy, I guess.

Given the health risks associated with smoking, including second hand smoke, the only way to be a considerate smoker is to never smoke in the proximity of another human being.

Ah, the nameless dread that somehow, someday, someway the government's gonna get you!

John

I'm not passing a draconian law based on your car.

The 1st smokers thing was an anti nazi saying. I learned it from an old New Dealer years ago.

You, Eddie, all you other godless wildeyed pinko commie lefties may be surprised that I voted for the Ohio ban, because - get ready - drum roll - it's almost there - it's a horrible thing and I don't want the kids exposed to it or at least as little as possible. I didn't realise it would make me a criminal outcast. (rimshot)

Pete

[finnbow]

Without trying to get all preachy and soap-boxy, I think there are a lot of smokers who don't realize how intolerable second-hand smoke is to many non-smokers. I, for one, simply cannot tolerate second-hand smoke (from active smokers or even on the curtains/bedding of a hotel room) and it has nothing to do with health concerns or a holier than thou attitude. It just makes me sick to my stomach - really.

[noonereal]

Here in NY smoking in all bars and restaurant is a no go for smoking. This I disagree with, these are private business and you do not need to patronize them if you don't want second hand smoke.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I have always been a considerate smoker. But your car exhaust is killing me.

I think you're kidding, but no doubt.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I, for one, simply cannot tolerate second-hand smoke (from active smokers or even on the curtains/bedding of a hotel room) and it has nothing to do with health concerns or a holier than thou attitude. It just makes me sick to my stomach - really.

Same here - and I smoked for thirty freakin' years! Walking through a cloud of second hand smoke put out by all the employees smoking on either side of the door to their workplace literally - literally - causes a reflex in me that stops my breathing.

John

PS: Does anyone know whether smoking rates are increasing? My gut tells me I'm seeing more and more people smoking all the time, particularly the young.

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Sooooo. You're saying what? Smoking ban bad, Arizona law good? What's the difference Chas?

Here's the thing. Your rights end where mine begin. You can smoke all you like. But I shouldn't have to breath your smoke. These are tricky. I actually don't know about the smoking thing. It's like the seat belt thing. Should I be free to go out and have a meal without having to breath second hand smoke? Yeah, I guess I should. But in a perfect world there would be places that catered to non-smokers. It really is something the market should take care of- in a perfect world. In reality, I never saw it happen that way. And I do like being able to go out with my kids. So I don't know. I like it, but I'm not sure if it's right.

Don't ban it in bars but if the owners want their customers to be able to smoke, they have to install whatever's needed to filter smoke particles out. Then monitor air quality.

Bit like the emissions tests on car exhausts, a lambda sensor built into the filter outlet could check and record partical levels. These get checked say once every couple of months or so. Occasionally going a little over the threshold gets a warning, regular low threshold failure gets a fine. Regular high level failure gets the bar closed down. Tampering with the sensor gets the bar closed down and the owner prosecuted.

Is it practical? I don't see why not. It would be expensive yes, but up to each bar owner to decide whether it's worth doing.

[finnbow]

PS: Does anyone know whether smoking rates are increasing? My gut tells me I'm seeing more and more people smoking all the time, particularly the young.

Not sure, but I heard on NPR this morning that 20% of adult Americans smoke. I think a demographic breakdown would be interesting, as I only personally know 2-3 people who smoke.

Here in NY smoking in all bars and restaurant is a no go for smoking. This I disagree with, these are private business and you do not need to patronize them if you don't want second hand smoke.

While I understand where you're coming from in terms of being a private business, should a private business have a right to:

1. Force employees to breath second-hand smoke as a condition of employment?
2. Exclude certain classes of people from their business (e.g., blacks, gays, Hispanics) because it's private?
3. Slap pornography up all over the walls (not a strip club, but a normal bar/restaurant).

In some cases, public good trumps private rights. Just sayin'.

[Boreas]

More than half of all states (26) have a nearly total ban on smoking in public. Just under a quarter (12) have no restrictions at all. The remaining 12 states have some sort of ban:

States with no restrictions on smoking:

Alabama
Alaska
Indiana
Kentucky
Missouri
Mississippi
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Texas
Virginia
West Virginia
Wyoming

States with strictest regulation (banned in bars, restaurants & non-hospitality workplaces):

Arizona
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Hawaii
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Maine
Massachusetts
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Montana
Nebraska
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
Ohio
Oregon
Rhode Island
Utah
Vermont
Washington
Wisconsin

States with partial smoking ban:

Arkansas (restaurants & non-hospitality workplaces)
Florida (restaurants & non-hospitality workplaces)
Georgia (restaurants)
Idaho (restaurants)
Louisiana (restaurants & non-hospitality workplaces)
Nevada (restaurants & non-hospitality workplaces)
New Hampshire (restaurants & bars)
North Carolina (restaurants & bars)
North Dakota (restaurants & non-hospitality workplaces)
Pennsylvania (restaurants & non-hospitality workplaces)
South Dakota (non-hospitality workplaces)
Tennessee (restaurants & non-hospitality workplaces)

John