Monuments and Myths

[Chicks]

Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben deserve retirement. They're racist myths of happy Black servitude.
The mascots were intended to let white consumers indulge in a fantasy of enslaved people as submissive, self-effacing, loyal and contentedly pacified.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...hs-ncna1231623

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Not Insane

Deflection. I did not mention Nazis. I mentioned the preservation of a place where very bad things happened to people at the hands of other people.

The question is, why does it still stand? Why do they not tear it down? Why do they not erase the history?

Reich-wing talking points for real now!

You like pretending the camps glorify Nazis, don't you!

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Reich-wing talking points for real now!

You like pretending the camps glorify Nazis, don't you!

That must be deflection and projection. I honestly don't know where you even got that from. You remind me of the guy that was voting for Obama because he was black, telling me I was voting against him because he's black, even though I've never voted for a democrat presidential candidate in my entire life, 66 years.

So yeah. You're pulling that accusation out of your butt, not my post.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by Not Insane

Deflection. I did not mention Nazis. I mentioned the preservation of a place where very bad things happened to people at the hands of other people.

The question is, why does it still stand? Why do they not tear it down? Why do they not erase the history?

You mentioned Auschwitz and are now spinning away by referrng to it as "a place." Pretty sure most directly associate Auschwitz with Nazi.

[donquixote99]

The only thing I can't be sure of, NI, is whether you don't know what you're doing repeating this meme, or whether you do. That is, whether you're just repeating because you're a negligent dumbshit, or whether you are knowingly promoting evil. I mean, you don't seem like a dumbshit, but even smart people can have big areas of blindness.

To unpack this more for people:

1. This 'why don't they tear down the camps' line wasn't invented by NI, it was making the rounds yesterday. It was professionally inserted.
2. It's nonsense. Neither the camps nor anything in Germany glorify Nazis the way US monuments glorify Confederates. Quite the opposite.
3. Using Nazi death camps, of all possible things, in an argument like this, functions as a dog whistle, or a subtle wave of the swastika, to modern fascists.

Viewing NI repetition of the thing here in light of the these three points, gets you the first part of this message.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by nailer

You mentioned Auschwitz and are now spinning away by referrng to it as "a place." Pretty sure most directly associate Auschwitz with Nazi.

I'm being as precise as possible. Others wish to broaden the meaning of what I posted. I'm not going there. The post stands and the point I made is valid.

And the point is this: We don't erase memorials of the inhumanity of man against man for a reason. Those that forget history are destined to repeat it.

And the most stark example of that in the modern world is of the Nazi death camps. It is not about "nazi's" specifically, It is just the artifacts of their inhumanity that survive as a reminder. The 20th century monuments to this sort of stuff that existed in the far east (China, Pol Pot, etc.) do not exist to the best of my knowledge, though I must admit ignorance regarding this. They are certainly less infamous, and I suspect it is because they are less accessible or no longer in existence.

But blowing my post off as "mentions Nazis" is ludicrous.

[BigElCat]

Political Zionists embrace Nazi memorials, because they prompt their cause. That's why they're left untouched.

The Progressive Liberals are going after Confederate memorials, because they're not nearly as smart as the Political Zionists. They don't even recognize their own hatred.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The only thing I can't be sure of, NI, is whether you don't know what you're doing repeating this meme, or whether you do. That is, whether you're just repeating because you're a negligent dumbshit, or whether you are knowingly promoting evil. I mean, you don't seem like a dumbshit, but even smart people can have big areas of blindness.

To unpack this more for people:

1. This 'why don't they tear down the camps' line wasn't invented by NI, it was making the rounds yesterday. It was professionally inserted.
2. It's nonsense. Neither the camps nor anything in Germany glorify Nazis the way US monuments glorify Confederates. Quite the opposite.
3. Using Nazi death camps, of all possible things, in an argument like this, functions as a dog whistle, or a subtle wave of the swastika, to modern fascists.

Viewing NI repetition of the thing here in light of the these three points, gets you the first part of this message.

For what it's worth, I do understand the "glorifying' point. But the issue is much more complicated for a simple reason. The south was a lot more than a few slave owners, just as 1930's germany was a lot more than Nazism.

I'm one of those that actually believes that slave ownership was on the way out in the south even if the south had won the war. Their reasons may not have been particularly altruistic (it was becoming simply too expensive compared to the technology being created at the time). But the bottom line is that it is important to understand the mind of those generals and others that ended up with statues erected in their honor, and what they actually stood for, personally and professionally.

We erect statues and turn places into monuments for a reason. Those that forget history are destined to repeat it. I would have a serious problem with a statue of Hitler or Goering, but not o Rommel. There is a reason for that.

And when are they going to randomly tear down statues of men from former generations because none of them measure up to today's standards of what is "right", they probably should be getting rid of that statue of Lennin in Freemont (Seattle).

The whole statue thing, IMO, is a "me thinks they do protest too much" thing and most of them are acting out of ignorance.

Frankly, I'm all for tearing down no small number of those statues for the same reason many here are, but I believe it should not be done by an unruly mob. I also believe it should be a decision made by the people in those particular towns, and not you, me, or anybody else that is not a citizen there.

But that being said, even when they are torn down I think they should be moved to their history musiums just as photos and memorabilia of hitler has been.

And what of all those Greek statues? Were those guys saints (well, some were gods)? Maybe it's time we raze those things as well.

Bottom line is that it may be prudent to remove a lot of statues, but we need to do it as adults and leave the decision to those in the cities and towns where they exist. But it is important to preserve history, even the bad history, for the reasons already stated.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

Political Zionists embrace Nazi memorials, because they prompt their cause. That's why they're left untouched.

The Progressive Liberals are going after Confederate memorials, because they're not nearly as smart as the Political Zionists. They don't even recognize their own hatred.

Exactly. Imagine the "Holocaust never happened" crowd living in a world where all trace of the camps had been removed. It would certainly strengthen their cause.

Physical artifacts bolster proof that a thing happened. When you see a statue, you need to ponder the world and culture in which it was erected and why those people did it. That, itself, is a lesson in history and the reality in which previous generations lived.

[BigElCat]

Robert E. Lee despised human slavery.

Lincoln wanted Lee to be his top general, but Lee believed in 'States Rights' over Federal authority.

That what the Civil War was about. It had very little to do with granting slaves their freedom. The quality of life for the slaves didn't improve much at all when their freedom was granted.

Black folks are still fighting that war. If bringing the statues down is going to help, then it's good thing. Only time will tell.