Liberalism and the impact on human nature

[BlueStreak]

It's a reaction to someone trying to cut benefits. A reaction to conservatism.

Perhaps we have it all wrong?

We're the sheep and the rioters in England are trying to protect themselves from the cuts. Unfortunately their methods are stupid, misdirected and violent. Which will do nothing but harm their cause. Non-violent resistence is far better.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

I also can't help but wonder if the fact that most of the rioters are so young has anything to do with it? The "free-for-all" atmosphere could appeal to the young and wild. Some of them may not even have any clue WHY they're doing it. Just taking a wild ride. The foolishness of youth, turned deadly.

Dave

[flacaltenn]

It's a combination of decidely left-leaning attitudes that contribute to choice they make to loot and burn.. The largest of which is the abandonment of discipline and personal responsibility. As the example in the article cites occassions where teachers are not supported for the enforcement of discipline -- you combine that with a neutered police response to violence, a citizenry prohibited from protecting itself for fear of harm to the perps, and you get flare-ups..

There is no way to inspire discipline and personal responsibility thru a big govt entitlement contract. The "social contract" in that case becomes decidely one-sided with no expected or monitored contributions from the recipients of the largess.

The taxonomy of the politics in the streets there is simple anarchy.. Stemming from a lack of respect for the "social contract" that they currently are bound to.. It's a shorter slide to anarchy from the LEFT (or admittedly libertarian) than from the right. And because I have to share my branch of political taxonomy with anarchists -- I'm sensitive to that. And I find myself reminding fellow libertarians that our primary foundation is a respect for the Constitution and the rule of law..

Finally, if the left is afraid of church and religion -- if they don't care about the structure of the family, and they don't include discipline and personal responsibility in their social contracts ---- Where the HECK are the kids supposed to pick these up??????

[BlueStreak]

"And because I have to share my branch of political taxonomy with anarchists -- I'm sensitive to that. And I find myself reminding fellow libertarians that our primary foundation is a respect for the Constitution and the rule of law.."

You can do this, but others can't? You're so full of it.

"...afraid of church and religion..."? Wrong again. It's not fear at all. It's a recognition of what the essential nature of religion is.....control. A form of government achieved through brainwashing. I would think that you would know that. Actually, in a way, your statement confirms it.

Relgion has NEVER been used to foment violence? Bullshit.

I don't go around busting heads, and I'm pretty sure D-Ray, JCricket, Nooner, nor any of the others here do either. Ghandi go around busting heads? Huh? MLK preach violence?

This thread is bullshit. And you guys are full of it.

What? Are you trying to take Becks old job, you manipulating turd?

Dave

[finnbow]

One things for sure. Liberal governance caused those crowds in Libya, Tunisia, Yemen and Syria to rise up.

If liberalism is the cause of riots, why aren't Germany, Holland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway awash in riots (instead of having the world's highest living standards?)

There was a large riot the other day at the Wisconsin State Fair in Milwaukee, in a city whose last mayor is now the current governor of the state (and is a conservative). Does that mean that state/city rule by a conservative causes riots?

IMHO, people go to the streets when they are dispossessed and have lost hope, regardless of whether it's a conservative or liberal in power. Bad governance is the problem. Simple as that.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Dubya was never a died in the wool conservative.

Who is? Michele Bachmann, Rick Santorum, Jim DeMint? Spare me the hell fire and brimstone, thank you.

Truth be told, good/competent governance trumps ideology IMHO. Dubya and Obama seem to be proving that in spades.

[flacaltenn]

"...afraid of church and religion..."? Wrong again. It's not fear at all. It's a recognition of what the essential nature of religion is.....control. A form of government achieved through brainwashing. I would think that you would know that. Actually, in a way, your statement confirms it.

It's not control.. It's voluntary participation. You personally chose to resist participation.

But what church attendence is -- is the discipline of getting up early every Sunday, putting on a clean set of clothes and going to think and ponder the important stuff in life. The responsibility of responding to every local and national crisis. In short -- NOT control -- but EXACTLY discipline, responsibility, community, ritual and faith.. I know that's painful for you. but it works for 10s of millions..

And religious violence? Not generally outbreaks of religious violence unless the power of the State has been co-opted by that religion (or vice versa). Religion could be a precursor to violence, but NOT a sufficient single cause of violence.

"And because I have to share my branch of political taxonomy with anarchists -- I'm sensitive to that. And I find myself reminding fellow libertarians that our primary foundation is a respect for the Constitution and the rule of law.."

You can do this, but others can't? You're so full of it.

The Libertarian Party First Principle is the avoidance of the "use of force".

From the LP Membership page..

------------------------------------
Certify Your Membership
* YES, sign me up as a member of the Libertarian Party. To validate my membership, I certify that I oppose the initiation of force to achieve political or social goals.
-----------------------------------
You want to show me the discipline and personal responsibility code that the looters adhere to? I've shown you mine. That's how I know I'm not an anarchist or a political nihilist like the Rep/Dems..

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Who is? Michele Bachmann, Rick Santorum, Jim DeMint? Spare me the hell fire and brimstone, thank you.

Truth be told, good/competent governance trumps ideology IMHO. Dubya and Obama seem to be proving that in spades.

True dat. And well stated, my friend. We need another sanctimonious, bible thumping charlatan like we need another blowhard conservative talk show host.

Are there nothing but jagoffs like this in todays GOP?

And +1, on the Obama/Bush statement. Like Zappa told us many years ago..."You are what you iz." To which I would ad, "...and you aint what you said you iz!"

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by flacaltenn

The Libertarian Party First Principle is the avoidance of the "use of force".

From the LP Membership page..

------------------------------------
Certify Your Membership
* YES, sign me up as a member of the Libertarian Party. To validate my membership, I certify that I oppose the initiation of force to achieve political or social goals.
-----------------------------------
You want to show me the discipline and personal responsibility code that the looters adhere to? I've shown you mine. That's how I know I'm not an anarchist or a political nihilist like the Rep/Dems..

Very nice. So, I see the Lp is into vapid pledges too.....

Looters are looters. They don't wear suits, assemble committees or T-off with the Big Boys at the country club.
They loot. They may be degenerates, but at least they iz what they says they iz.....Looters.

Dave

[d-ray657]

The left isn't afraid of religion. We are intellectually capable of separating our personal choice of religious faith from the need for a secular government that accommodates people of all religious backgrounds. We are able to distinguish the duties and purposes of government from the religious principles of the faith we practice. We know that the government can properly take action to provide clean water, but not to dictate the most private choices a person makes. One need not buy into the ravings of Pat Robertson, Michelle Bachman, or Rick Perry to be a Christian.

It is ludicrous to suggest that people who purport to be people of faith do not engage in violence on behalf of their beliefs. Think about the anti-abortion extremists. How about the devout Klan members with their burning cross. Islam is a very structured religious system - plenty of discipline. Yet people who stop what they are doing to pray at a prescribed time, include among their number those who purport to be acting in it's name while engqging in mass killings.

Regards,

D-Ray