People Can Change

[BlueStreak]

By choice or by birth, whatever, I don't care. In a free society, consenting adults are supposed to have a right to self determination, not to be forced to live in compliance with somebody else's religious dogmas.

Anything less is not freedom. It's tyranny.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by mpholland

I believe there are those with an agenda in every group, but that doesn't mean every group has an agenda.

+1.

Dave

[HarmanKardon]

www.christianbormann.de

This gay actor was a very close friend to me for more than ten years. It was a wonderful friendship and of course there where always some kisses here, some hugs there. And he always wanted more but totally accepted my first rejection and from that moment on he teased me in a very funny way with his approaches but never urged me again to do something that I do not want to do.

A very intelligent intellectual sensitive funny artist then. I am proud that he was my friend for a long time - and I am still not homosexual. (Unfortunately he became depressive in the last years and I could not help him despite of all my various efforts. At last I had to seperate from him because I started to fear for my own mental health.)

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

By choice or by birth, whatever, I don't care. In a free society, consenting adults are supposed to have a right to self determination, not to be forced to live in compliance with somebody else's religious dogmas.

Anything less is not freedom. It's tyranny.

Dave

Traditional analysis of the Equal Protection provision of the Constitution focused on immutable characteristics of the individuals seeking protection. As a shorthand, an immutable characteristic is something that you are born with - for example race or gender. That is what gives significance to the research that shows that sexual preference is hard-wired. It brings such individuals within the protection of the Equal Protection clause. The hard-wiring makes sexual preference closer to an immutable characteristic.

Regards,

D-Ray

[BlueStreak]

Thanks, Don, I wasn't aware of that. However, I was expressing a personal opinion, not arguing constitutionality. At any rate, Thanks!

Dave

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

So there's no way it's by choice? That's pretty generous IMO.

Originally Posted by d-ray657

I'm not sure I understand the question.

But, my answer is - I believe that one's sexual preference is hard-wired. The differences are just that - differences, not defects.

We've been friends for quite a long time with several gay and lesbian couples. Here's my impression...and I home I'm not insulting anybody because it's not my intention.

The gay men...seems to me they're all "hard-wired". Gay...always been gay...always will be gay.

The women however? Most are definitely the same. But there are just a couple of the women we know who have taken same-sex partners who are very open about how they've chosen a woman partner as the only alternative to living a life without a partner because men generally have such monumental limits as to the intimacy they can lend to a relationship with a woman.

Or in otherwords:

Ya know why men can't get mad cow disease?
Because they're pigs.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

How does that happen?

Simple, we don't really care about people's gender choices so we are probably less observent regarding such matters. I donated to their cause but the person who sent thanks was simply a name on a computer screen. Then after MD acknowledged their rights a gang of local whack jobs managed to find enough like minded bigots to get it on the ballot, so again we voted in favour of their rights. But whether any of our acquaintences are LGBT we really do not know - nor care.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

I think that most of us know more gay people than we realize. Far fewer in the current generation of young adults (i.e., my sons' ages)* remain in the closet than in my generation and Rob's generation.

Regards,

D-Ray

*My younger son turned 24 today. Gawd do I feel old.

Ours is 48 so don't feel too bad.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

I'm saying Rob would NEVER let anyone like me get away with that statement without calling them a homophobe. You know it & I know it.

Then you really don't know me very well.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

We've been friends for quite a long time with several gay and lesbian couples. Here's my impression...and I home I'm not insulting anybody because it's not my intention.

The gay men...seems to me they're all "hard-wired". Gay...always been gay...always will be gay.

The women however? Most are definitely the same. But there are just a couple of the women we know who have taken same-sex partners who are very open about how they've chosen a woman partner as the only alternative to living a life without a partner because men generally have such monumental limits as to the intimacy they can lend to a relationship with a woman.

Or in otherwords:

Ya know why men can't get mad cow disease?
Because they're pigs.

There may be more truth than poetry there Ike. I was brought up to always show women the respect that is their due. (In today's political climate some women have made me forget what Mom taught me). This attitude rather amazed Florence after we met in that blizzard as she could not understandd why I offered her my protection and asked nothing in return. She was further delighted when we married, as despite being a widow, I was the first man to ever make love with her. My favourite description of us is that we are simply a single soul in two bodies. We finish each other's sentences on a regular basis.