FAKE NEWS EXPOSED: A Service of PoliticalChat.com

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

As far as your claim that "the wingnut infotainment complex makes shit up out of whole cloth (e.g., Seth Rich, Stop the Steal, Sandy Hook & Parkland crisis actors, Dominion Voting Systems, ..."), you're missing a few. Nick Sandmann, Brett Kavanaugh, the 2020 riots were mostly peaceful, the discovery of Hunter Biden’s laptop was a Russian plot, Trump was a Russian asset, Trump and Alfa Bank, etc.

Nicholas Sandmann’s libel lawsuits against ABC, CBS, Gannett, the New York Times, and Rolling Stone have been dismissed by a federal judge.

The FBI investigation of Kavanaugh was deliberately curtailed by Trump's DOJ.

Black Lives Matter Protesters Were Overwhelmingly Peaceful

More than 50 former senior intelligence officials have signed on to a letter outlining their belief that the recent disclosure of emails allegedly belonging to Joe Biden’s son “has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation.”

Trump showed his fealty to Putin in Helsinki.

The FBI did indeed have concerns about the Alpha Bank/Trump connection and the Alfa Bank results “have been validated and are reproducible. The findings of the researchers were true then and remain true today.

In summary, all of your examples off "Fake News" end up being valid reporting on actual events of public interest. OTOH, your beloved Wingnut News reporting on Seth Rich, Sandy Hook, Dominion/SmartMatic and other election lies were indeed lies from the very start and were not reporting on actual events, but deliberately contrived lies. The fact that you assert that all of these news stories are equivalently and deliberately fake reflects your indoctrination in the wingnut mantra that all news but wingnut news is fake.

In short, the MSM tries to get its reporting right and sometimes fails, but then corrects or retracts. Wingnut news, OTOH, makes shit up from whole cloth and doubles down when called out on it. They are not equivalent.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Nicholas Sandmann’s libel lawsuits against ABC, CBS, Gannett, the New York Times, and Rolling Stone have been dismissed by a federal judge.

The FBI investigation of Kavanaugh was deliberately curtailed by Trump's DOJ.

Black Lives Matter Protesters Were Overwhelmingly Peaceful

More than 50 former senior intelligence officials have signed on to a letter outlining their belief that the recent disclosure of emails allegedly belonging to Joe Biden’s son “has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation.”

Trump showed his fealty to Putin in Helsinki.

The FBI did indeed have concerns about the Alpha Bank/Trump connection and the Alfa Bank results “have been validated and are reproducible. The findings of the researchers were true then and remain true today.

In summary, all of your examples off "Fake News" end up being valid reporting on actual events of public interest. OTOH, your beloved Wingnut News reporting on Seth Rich, Sandy Hook, Dominion/SmartMatic and other election lies were indeed lies from the very start and were not reporting on actual events, but deliberately contrived lies. The fact that you assert that all of these news stories are equivalently and deliberately fake reflects your indoctrination in the wingnut mantra that all news but wingnut news is fake.

In short, the MSM tries to get its reporting right and sometimes fails, but then corrects or retracts. Wingnut news, OTOH, makes shit up from whole cloth and doubles down when called out on it. They are not equivalent.

You're arguing points that I'm not making. For example:

Do you deny that the initial reporting on Sandmann painted him as the instigator in the confrontation with the native American? It was absolutely reported that way.

You posted a link to an article where you state Trump's DOJ curtailed the Kavanaugh investigation. However, the article you linked to makes no such statement.

Apparently in your world, protests that result in dozens killed or injured and billions of dollars in property damage are "mostly peaceful". Sorry, not buying the spin.

Yes, the FBI found 50 useful idiots to sign on to a statement that says stories about Hunter B's laptop look like Russian disinformation....before the 2020 election. That statement has since been discredited. The Feds are now reportedly close to making a decision about bringing charges against Hunter B.

I could go on, but it gets tiresome helping you keep your facts straight.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

You're arguing points that I'm not making. For example:

Do you deny that the initial reporting on Sandmann painted him as the instigator in the confrontation with the native American? It was absolutely reported that way.

You posted a link to an article where you state Trump's DOJ curtailed the Kavanaugh investigation. However, the article you linked to makes no such statement.

Apparently in your world, protests that result in dozens killed or injured and billions of dollars in property damage are "mostly peaceful". Sorry, not buying the spin.

Yes, the FBI found 50 useful idiots to sign on to a statement that says stories about Hunter B's laptop look like Russian disinformation....before the 2020 election. That statement has since been discredited. The Feds are now reportedly close to making a decision about bringing charges against Hunter B.

I could go on, but it gets tiresome helping you keep your facts straight.

To the extent that the MSM got any of these stories wrong (they mostly didn't), they come clean and retract or correct the record and even write exposes about how they fucked up (IOW, they actually want to get things right). Wingnut News, however, has no intent/interest in getting things right (as opposed to being simply a propaganda outlet for the Right) and doubles down when caught making up fictitious stories and then conjures up more lies and/or changes the subject in a CYA attempt.

Consider for a moment that the #1 show on Fox News, the primary news source for conservatives, admits in open court that Tucker Carlson is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' Then in a deposition Sidney Powell, a frequent Fox News guest invited on the network to spew her lies about the 2020 election, stated "no reasonable person would conclude that my statements were truly statements of fact." Conversely, Fox News fired its political editor, Chris Stirewalt, for having the nerve to tell the truth about Arizona election results instead of maintaining the fiction that its viewers wanted to hear (that Trump won).

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

To the extent that the MSM got any of these stories wrong (they mostly didn't), they come clean and retract or correct the record and even write exposes about how they fucked up (IOW, they actually want to get things right). Wingnut News, however, has no intent/interest in getting things right (as opposed to being simply a propaganda outlet for the Right) and doubles down when caught making up fictitious stories and then conjures up more lies and/or changes the subject in a CYA attempt.

Not so much. For example, the MSM is still reporting that the 2020 riots were "mostly peaceful." When the news business is more interested in advancing a narrative than reporting facts, that's what you get.

Originally Posted by finnbow

Consider for a moment that the #1 show on Fox News, the primary news source for conservatives, admits in open court that Tucker Carlson is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' Then in a deposition Sidney Powell, a frequent Fox News guest invited on the network to spew her lies about the 2020 election, stated "no reasonable person would conclude that my statements were truly statements of fact." Conversely, Fox News fired its political editor, Chris Stirewalt, for having the nerve to tell the truth about Arizona election results instead of maintaining the fiction that its viewers wanted to hear (that Trump won).

Yeah, Tucker Calson is one of the many "bogeymen" on the left. Yes, the Tucker Carlson show is not a straight news show, and never has been. The Show - just like the Rachel Maddow show or The Situation Room - are shows that mix discussion of current events with commentary and debate. There's nothing new, novel or odd about the format that Carlson uses his show versus just about any other news commentary or "infotainment" type of show.

I didn't see Powell's comments on Fox but if she made those comments on one of the infotainment shows, then her quoted comments are likely correct in that context.

Regarding Stirewalt, yes, that's what Stirewalt has said about his termination. There are some problems with that explanation, however. One, Stirewalt didn't make that early call about Arizona all by himself. In fact, according to Jared Kushner, permission to make that early call for Arizona went all the way up to Rupert Murdoch. Two, other team members that monitored and reported polling results have not been terminated. Third, Stirewalt did make some unflattering public comments about Fox before his termination. Most employers take a pretty dim view of that kind of conduct.

So, whether he was actually fired for calling Arizona early, who really knows? Fox isn't saying - other than to call his termination part of a "restructuring". It's interesting that there are certain rules for carrying out a bona fide corporate restructure, particularly when the impacted individual(s) are 40 or more years of age. Stierwalt was certainly over 40 at the time of the "restructuring". Don't know if those rules were followed or not, but if not Stirewalt may have some legal recourse against Fox. I've not seen any reporting that suggests he's legally challenging his termination.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Not so much. For example, the MSM is still reporting that the 2020 riots were "mostly peaceful." When the news business is more interested in advancing a narrative than reporting facts, that's what you get.

Sorry to bust your (news) bubble, but the myth that the BLM protests were exceedingly violent simply isn't true. It was concocted by conservative media to discredit the message of police brutality directed against Blacks (and later to draw an equivalency to Jan. 6). Indeed, a study of the 2020 BLM demonstrations revealed that "based on the 7,305 events we’ve collected, the overall levels of violence and property destruction were low, and most of the violence that did take place was, in fact, directed against the BLM protesters."

The worst violence in the 2 cities I'm most familiar with regard to BLM protests (Minneapolis (where it all started and where my daughter and her family live) and DC (my hometown)) was attributable to the Right. The rioting and looting in Minneapolis was triggered by a White Supremacist torching an auto parts store and the worst violence in DC resulted from Trump administration clearing Lafayette Square just prior to his Bible-in-hand photo op in front of St. John's Church.

The myth of the excessively violent BLM protests was itself a contrivance of Right Wing media and failed to account for the fact that the preponderance of the violence that did occur was directed at BLM protestors by police and Right Wing provocateurs, not caused by them. Hell, the Right Wing celebrates the perpetrator of the most violent event of the entire summer (Kyle Rittenhouse).

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Sorry to bust your (news) bubble, but the myth that the BLM protests were exceedingly violent simply isn't true.

You burst nothing. $2B in property damage and dozens killed or injured in no way comports with the statement that the protests were non-violent. No way, no how. You can spin it all you want, but spin doesn't negate the $$$ in property damage, loss of life, or injuries.

As far as Rittenhouse, he was tried for murder, and the jury came back with a not-guilty verdict because he was acting in self-defense (in case you missed it, which is suggested by the comments in your post). The only folks who were surprised by that verdict might be you and your fellow travelers who were likely rooting for a guilty verdict, evidence be damned.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

You burst nothing. $2B in property damage and dozens killed or injured in no way comports with the statement that the protests were non-violent. No way, no how. You can spin it all you want, but spin doesn't negate the $$$ in property damage, loss of life, or injuries.

As far as Rittenhouse, he was tried for murder, and the jury came back with a not-guilty verdict because he was acting in self-defense (in case you missed it, which is suggested by the comments in your post). The only folks who were surprised by that verdict might be you and your fellow travelers who were likely rooting for a guilty verdict, evidence be damned.

I didn't spin anything, nor did I say that the protests were "non-violent." I cited a study that said they were "mostly peaceful." To wit, a report from the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project estimated that between May 26 and August 22, 93% of individual protests were "peaceful and nondestructive" and research from the Nonviolent Action Lab and Crowd Counting Consortium estimated that by the end of June, 96.3% of 7,305 demonstrations involved no injuries and no property damage. And the fact remains that most of the violence was directed at BLM protestors by police, right wing provocateurs and Trump himself, not perpetrated by them.

What's perverse about your logic is that Trump, his militant supporters and the police themselves were responsible for the preponderance of the violence in the ~5% of BLM protests that had any violence or property damage whatsoever. Then they, along with their loyal propaganda outlets, blame BLM for the violence that they largely perpetrated to discredit the movement's objectives. It's a cynical lie.

As for Rittenhouse, a teenager taking an AR-15 across state lines, shooting three and killing two is violence whether or not he was subsequently convicted. Similarly, Nicole Simpson died a violent death whether or not OJ was convicted. The lack of conviction has no bearing upon whether the largest single act of BLM violence was perpetrated by a wingnut vigilante teenager who had no business being there with a weapon after curfew. Then Trump and the Right celebrate the kid and host him at Mar-a-Lago. If you can't recognize how perverse this is, I can't help you.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Sorry to bust your (news) bubble, but the myth that the BLM protests were exceedingly violent simply isn't true. It was concocted by conservative media to discredit the message of police brutality directed against Blacks (and later to draw an equivalency to Jan. 6). Indeed, a study of the 2020 BLM demonstrations revealed that "based on the 7,305 events we’ve collected, the overall levels of violence and property destruction were low, and most of the violence that did take place was, in fact, directed against the BLM protesters."

The worst violence in the 2 cities I'm most familiar with regard to BLM protests (Minneapolis (where it all started and where my daughter and her family live) and DC (my hometown)) was attributable to the Right. The rioting and looting in Minneapolis was triggered by a White Supremacist torching an auto parts store and the worst violence in DC resulted from Trump administration clearing Lafayette Square just prior to his Bible-in-hand photo op in front of St. John's Church.

The myth of the excessively violent BLM protests was itself a contrivance of Right Wing media and failed to account for the fact that the preponderance of the violence that did occur was directed at BLM protestors by police and Right Wing provocateurs, not caused by them. Hell, the Right Wing celebrates the perpetrator of the most violent event of the entire summer (Kyle Rittenhouse).

And that's not even counting the BLM protests against police brutality around the world. It seems like more than those with the permanent tan were aware of unfair treatment Blacks are getting in this country. Where do you get your statements from whell? 2B in damages, dozens killed. I guess you'll quote some Reich-Wing media source. finnbow was stating facts. On the other hand...

[whell]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

And that's not even counting the BLM protests against police brutality around the world. It seems like more than those with the permanent tan were aware of unfair treatment Blacks are getting in this country. Where do you get your statements from whell? 2B in damages, dozens killed. I guess you'll quote some Reich-Wing media source. finnbow was stating facts. On the other hand...

I linked to my source twice in prior posts. You can check it out for yourself.

No, no violence at all.

Hell, it was Governor Walz in MN, a Democrat, that had to mobilize the National Guard to restore order.

"Let’s be very clear,” Mr. Walz said. “The situation in Minneapolis, is no longer, in any way, about the murder of George Floyd. It is about attacking civil society, instilling fear and disrupting our great cities."

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

You posted a link to an article where you state Trump's DOJ curtailed the Kavanaugh investigation. However, the article you linked to makes no such statement.

Sworn testimony today between Sheldon Whitehouse and FBI director Ray revealed that it was, in fact, worse than I thought. The White House dictated to the FBI which witnesses could be interviewed and possibly which questions could even be asked.

WHITEHOUSE: Is it also true that in that supplemental BI [background investigation], the FBI took direction from the White House as to whom the FBI would question and even what questions the FBI could ask?
WRAY: So it is true ... as to the who. I am not sure as I sit here whether it is true as to the what questions.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...augh-tip-line/