Sovereign Citizens

[BlueStreak]

What do y'all think of this;

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu...reign-citizens

These Sovereign Citizens consider themselves "Patriots", fighting for our "Freedom". I think they're little more than gun-toting Anarchist a-holes and a direct threat to our freedom.

To my mind, there is such a thing as "too much freedom" and that's when civilization breaks down, everyone starts doing just as they damn well please and every day simply becomes a fight to survive.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

"Sovereign citizens do not represent an anarchist group, nor are they a militia, although they sometimes use or buy illegal weapons. Rather, they operate as individuals without established leadership and only come together in loosely affiliated groups to train, help each other with paperwork, or socialize and talk about their ideology. They may refer to themselves as “constitutionalists” or “freemen,” which is not necessarily a connection to a specific group, but, rather, an indication that they are free from government control."

However, doesn't some of this sound familiar?

Like maybe the movement has grown bigger than the FBI lets on, since 2011?

Dave

[BlueStreak]

More;

http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/scm.html?xpicked=4

Dave

[Pio1980]

So it has finally come up at last in regard to the Bundy nonsense?

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[donquixote99]

Like the Davidians in that they see themselves as the few, the proud, standing against the 'satanic' forces. Unlike them in not being into following a charismatic leader, that I know of. Though one might come along some time....

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

So it has finally come up at last in regard to the Bundy nonsense?

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Your mentioning it is what piqued my interest. Although I had heard of this once a long time ago, it slipped my mind so I hadn't made the connection. Back then, I probably just dismissed them as a handful of nutbags that we needn't worry about too much. (Timothy McVeigh notwithstanding.) However, despite what the FBI says, just looking at the description and reading a bit farther it doesn't take much to see that the lunacy has spread. And spread more than we might think.

There have been all sorts of incidents not reported in the media. For instance, who here knew about the armed attacks on law enforcement?

Dave

[donquixote99]

The phrase 'sovereign citizen' makes no sense. 'Citizen' is a status defined in the legal context of a tribe or nation, and so is a status created by a group. Citizens have rights and duties defined by the group, and are subject to the leadership and legal authority of the group. A sovereign, by contrast, is subject to nothing and no one. So the two are logically incompatible.

[BlueStreak]

To clarify. The basic ideology has spread. Not necessarily the violent tactics (yet), but the downright irrational hatred of government and law enforcement has definitely spread.

I notice the social media has cleaned it up some, but for a while there FaceBook was filling up with Patriotic sounding groups that when closely examined were really nothing more than vitriol spewing anti-everything cesspools.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The phrase 'sovereign citizen' makes no sense. 'Citizen' is a status defined in the legal context of a tribe or nation, and so is a status created by a group. Citizens have rights and duties defined by the group, and are subject to the leadership and legal authority of the group. A sovereign, by contrast, is subject to nothing and no one. So the two are logically incompatible.

Especially with the internet, seditionist ideas can spread quickly with no real structure or hierarchy. You don't have to attend any meetings, pay any dues or follow any "leaders". You can read someones thoughts and become simpatico without ever knowing that persons real name. Does the creation of a Zeitgeist or a meme necessary require a strong "leader" or can it simply spring forth from people sharing thoughts, then attract strong leaders?

Think about it.

[BlueStreak]

Maybe "Sovereign Resident" would make more sense? But, really the name means nothing. It's the actions that matter, whatever they call themselves.

Dave