$50 a bulb??

[piece-itpete]

I mistrust the intellectual elite because I've read history.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by JonL

I also think it's weird that "intellectual" and, by extension, "intelligence" and "education" have become negative buzzwords for the right. WTF is THAT all about?

Because the ignorant are more easily controlled. This is why they also hate it when the well traveled compare the US to foreign countries, (Such as the foul and most foreign French.), and also make such efforts to appeal to xenophobics. If it's foreign, then it must be evil and/or inferior, right?

Dave

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I mistrust the intellectual elite because I've read history.

Pete

What did Newton or Darwin ever do that harmed society?

[Combwork]

There are a couple of things that are against electric cars. First is limited range between charges and second is the time it takes to re-charge. Maybe both could be fixed. First, standardise battery size then make it quick and easy to pull the old battery out and fit its replacement. You go to the charging station, someone brings out a trolly with two compartments; one has a fully charged battery and the other compartment's empty, ready to slide the old battery onto. The standard size of the battery compartment means that as technology advances, batteries giving longer range could be made to a common size.

The bigger the generating plant, the lower the unit cost so the charging station's owner has a hook-up to a high voltage power line and recharges the old batteries on site, maybe in banks of 20 or more to keep fully charged batteries available. Initial outlay would be high, but after taking the cost of filling dry storage tanks in a new gas station, would it be any higher than the cost of a new-build charging station, especially if the government offers tax breaks, or even grants to garage owners switching to green technology?

[flacaltenn]

JonL:

I find it a little strange that I spent most of the time talking about fuel cells, and hydrogen and nuclear, but the one thing you're dinging me on is the socialist comment.

Don't really want to do that one now.. But yeah, I know socialists have the best of intentions in forming a better, fairer society. But they do that by substituting the wisdom and compassion of GOVT which I personally find to be a suboptimal choice and in fact that method naturally REDUCES the choices that you and I have. The fact that our Fed govt has not even demonstrated the ability to successfully manage Universal SS for one lifetime, provide tamper free elections, or secure the borders from crime and disease should worry statists just a tad. Don't really want them over-extending their basis incompetence to toilets and lightbulbs. Not JUST a matter of "filtering" or perceptions. It's a personal dedication to LIMITING the functions of govt to stuff they can and should handle well.

You say..

To imply that socialists are motivated by centralization and consolidation of power within some intellectual elite is simply a reflection of your filters and not reality.

Not just SOME intellectual elite, that would be just a club (or the normal univ faculty lounge). But the elite I was picturing would be more like the appointed heads of DOE, USFS, BLM, Treasury, DOJ, ect. You get the picture. Oh and a sympathetic Congress and Executive Branch. Say THAT kind of elite. Because you can't discuss political philosophies without the power structure to enforce them. So it IS reality.

BTW: I dropped the socialist bomb in an entirely proper context. And if you read the one-liner, it was in reference to centralizing control of the energy market into govt hands. You can't deny that this is at the top of list for socialist or progressive politics. Or can you? Some people are queezy about actually identifying socialism when it exists because it comes a little too close to politicians and movements that they believe they favor. I just use the proper terminology whenever possible - doesn't give me heartburn...

I'm really more interested in the actual enviromental elements of our energy policy and the technology behind our options such as they are. Like I said, that's my favorite thing to discuss.

So I actually spent time responding to you back in another thread at :

http://www.politicalchat.org/showpos...1&postcount=30 about small business and ecology. And at:

http://www.politicalchat.org/showpos...5&postcount=33 about your disbelief that those green credits largely accounted for GE and it's zero tax statement. I thought you'd find those interesting. But maybe not. I think GE getting more than $100 per appliance sold just because it's Energy Star would affect your "morality filters". But maybe not..

[flacaltenn]

Combwork:

I'm really really uncomfortable with the concept of some stranger on the roadside in rural Mississippi ripping the most expensive component of my electric car out and "giving me" one of his.. Besides, they weigh several hundred pounds last time I checked.

Don't need to go fully electric like the Nissan Leaf. Hybrid design can cover the complete range of passenger vehicles. Or if you like -- a hybrid design with a charging port to give you the option of starting the trip out gasoline-free. But the idiots at Nissan for some reason, (cost) left out the charger and conditioning. So you either have to pack that option with you or go to a place with the proper adapters. Don't think that's the case with the Volt.

[HatchetJack]

Saw this dude a couple months back blast by me in traffic. He was riding
what looked to be about a 40 year old huffy bycycle with either a weedeater
or chainsaw engine attatched. I bet he was running near 40mph.

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by flacaltenn

Combwork:

I'm really really uncomfortable with the concept of some stranger on the roadside in rural Mississippi ripping the most expensive component of my electric car out and "giving me" one of his.. Besides, they weigh several hundred pounds last time I checked.

Don't need to go fully electric like the Nissan Leaf. Hybrid design can cover the complete range of passenger vehicles. Or if you like -- a hybrid design with a charging port to give you the option of starting the trip out gasoline-free. But the idiots at Nissan for some reason, (cost) left out the charger and conditioning. So you either have to pack that option with you or go to a place with the proper adapters. Don't think that's the case with the Volt.

Besides, they weigh several hundred pounds last time I checked.

That's the point. DIY battery swops would be impractical. I'm not talking about pulling into some backroad shack but maybe the idea of main road battery exchange stations could work.

Duel fuel sounds good, but if you factor in things like regenerative braking, you're looking at a highly complex (and expensive to maintain) car. I can't help thinking about the potential of a petrol or diesel engine. Heat is energy; once the compression/ignition cycle is done what you're left with is heat, yet car manufacturers spend a lot of time figuring out the best way to throw this energy away.

The trick is to find a way of using this heat. In the UK it's now legal to run diesel cars on cooking oil. Fine in the old days when diesel engines were more robust, but modern engines are much more efficient, and much less tolerant of what they run on. If you get it hot enough, the viscosity of fresh veg oil can match diesel oil, but we're talking about 160 degrees Centigrade. Could this be a practical use for some of that wasted heat; wrap the feed-pipe from the tank around the exhaust manifold?

When it takes more than 10 seconds to find the ? key, it's time to call it a night.........

[merrylander]

What is truly amusing about this thread is all the government bashing, guess who elected these idiots.

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by merrylander

What is truly amusing about this thread is all the government bashing, guess who elected these idiots.

I'm clean. It's your government, not mine