Dreadful Terrorist Attack In Peshawar, Pakistan

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The army fostered these people. The Pakistani army has always been sympathetic to terrorists. Now the terrorists are out of their
control.

I don't think this is quite correct. Certainly there was and is support for the Taliban within the Pakistani government but not from the Army. Rather, the Taliban have been supported covertly by the ISI, Pakistan's intelligence service. In fact, the Taliban were essentially created by the ISI.

John

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Oerets

This has to do with a lack of a lack of a real middle class, education and the subjugating women thus allowing extremism to flourish.

What to do, given the fact of nukes in the country!


Barney

Some of the more vocal Muslim activist women have taken the risk to express that the subjugation of their gender is due to some of the language in the Quran. Certainly much of it is distorted interpretation by some Muslim men, but these comments from women need to be listened to.

My personal experience with several highly educated and successful families where the husband and wife were both born in Pakistan is that the guys tend to have this attitude toward women (diminishment is the best term I can think of) that just seems to creep out at the most unexpected times. Just my anecdotal experience, but a bit troubling for me nonetheless.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The army fostered these people. The Pakistani army has always been sympathetic to terrorists. Now the terrorists are out of their
control.

Over simple. Reality is very complex there.

The Pakistani definitely have had a relationship with the Afghan Taliban, messing up Afghanistan being seen as in their interest. The 'pakistani Taliban' is, however, a different bunch, and further, the 'Taliban' umbrella there covers a bunch of only-loosely affiliated groups with varying composition, goals, tactics, frineds, enemies, etc, etc etc.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

Pakistani army probably created (or at least funded and armed) their home grown version of Taliban to fight against the western forces in Afghanistan. Now that very same force is coming home to haunt them.

This is the second high profile attack in Peshawar which is a garrison city. The earlier one was an attack on an air base in the same area.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-19278302

The Pakistani Taliban arose after the US invasion of Afghanistan. It came about because the Talibs fled Afghanistan to a safe haven in North Waziristan where they have ethnic ties.

I'm sure that the ISI and perhaps the Pakistani Army were quite content to have the Taliban causing trouble in Afghanistan but not to have them wreaking havoc in their own back yard. That wasn't the plan at all.

So just like ISIS, which began as al Qaeda in Iraq and is led by a man whom the US arrested in Iraq and then released (presumably after a bit of "EIT"), the existence of a Taliban operating in Pakistan can be laid directly at the feet of Bush and Cheney.

John

[Boreas]

Some posters in this thread seem to be forgetting who it is that suffered in this massacre and, for that matter, who it is who are carrying the fight to ISIS, the Taliban and AQAP. Muslims have suffered far more than any other group at the hands of these human obscenities.

John

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Over simple. Reality is very complex there.

The Pakistani definitely have had a relationship with the Afghan Taliban, messing up Afghanistan being seen as in their interest. The 'pakistani Taliban' is, however, a different bunch, and further, the 'Taliban' umbrella there covers a bunch of only-loosely affiliated groups with varying composition, goals, tactics, frineds, enemies, etc, etc etc.

I have a psychiatrist friend from Karachi. We don't talk politics much but I remember a while back after lunch I mentioned the fact that the government of this country, regardless of which party holds the Oval Office has the same attitude about the PKK (Kurkistan Worker's Party). It's the group that Obama's people have been looking to for active support against ISIS. But it's a long and convenient history for this country. Kurds have problems both in Iraq and in Turkey and there is active PKK in both countries. However...because the Turks are our long term allies, the Turkish PKK were categorized as a terrorist group by the US government, while the Iraq PKK, who were enemies of Saddam, were considered to be "freedom fighters" by the US government. It's the same goddamn PKK, of course and that schiz designation continues with Obama.

Anyway, one day I mentioned my disgust at this country's convenient attitude toward the PKK one day...Shaukat listened quietly. And when I was done, his only comment was, "Doesn't matter if they're in Turkey or in Iraq, they're Taliban."

[donquixote99]

Ah, the Kurds are taliban? Just goes to show how meaningless a term can get.

'Fighters of another tribe' seems to be the only common denominator.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Anyway, one day I mentioned my disgust at this country's convenient attitude toward the PKK one day...Shaukat listened quietly. And when I was done, his only comment was, "Doesn't matter if they're in Turkey or in Iraq, they're Taliban."

But he's mistaken. The PKK are pretty much a secular and vaguely communist organization. They also have a strong feminist element in their ideology and even have women fighters in their ranks. (This scares the hell out of ISIS. The thought of being killed by a woman makes them wet their pants.)

Also, the PKK presence in Iraq has been sparse and contested until ISIS began knocking on the door of the Kurdish-controlled area of Iraq. There was open hostility, and occasional combat, between the PKK and the Peshmerga forces of the Kurdistan Regional Government.

Now the PKK and Peshmerga are conducting joint operations against ISIS. They are also an important force in the fight against ISIS in Syria, though the Turkish government has inexplicably taken steps to prevent PKK fighters from leaving Turkey to join the fight against ISIS.

John

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Ah, the Kurds are taliban? Just goes to show how meaningless a term can get.

'Fighters of another tribe' seems to be the only common denominator.

I didn't say that, nor did my friend. He did not say that Kurds are Taliban, he said the PKK is Taliban. I believe his point was that the PKK is all about power for the PKK and will kill Kurds who oppose them just as quickly and effectively as it will kill ISIS, or members of the military and law enforcement of the countries wherein they reside. As obviously, will the Taliban.

[Rajoo]

It's all a matter of who is financing who and whose fight it is.
Who is financing the Afghan Taliban and the Pakistan Taliban now?