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  #1951  
Old 06-19-2018, 12:45 PM
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nailer nailer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
You mean, like, follow the law?
Nope, more like breaking campaign promises that were made just to get/keep your base's votes. In this case Trump is keeping his build the wall (hostile anti-immigration platform) promise.

Forget to answer the question or just afraid of being outed?
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Last edited by nailer; 06-19-2018 at 01:03 PM.
  #1952  
Old 06-19-2018, 01:23 PM
Chicks Chicks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
If Jeb were president we'd still have the tax cut, maybe be working toward an ACA reform bill and still have normal international relations.
And we wouldn’t have an outrageous lunatic in the Oval Office. We would have respect for the FBI and the independence of the Judiciary, no manipulation of the DOJ, no obstruction of justice, decency in our handling of immigrants and our allies, respect for journalists and the First Amendment, etc. I could easily deal with Jeb being in charge.
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  #1953  
Old 06-19-2018, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicks View Post
And we wouldn’t have an outrageous lunatic in the Oval Office. We would have respect for the FBI and the independence of the Judiciary, no manipulation of the DOJ, no obstruction of justice, decency in our handling of immigrants and our allies, respect for journalists and the First Amendment, etc. I could easily deal with Jeb being in charge.
QFT. However, it's debatable if Jeb is even a Republican anymore. He's politically homeless, like every other decent (former) Republican.
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  #1954  
Old 06-19-2018, 01:52 PM
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“Crooked Hillary” has nothing on the Trump Foundation.

https://newrepublic.com/minutes/1369...ump-foundation

Quote:
There is no ethical ambiguity here. Trump hustled charitable donations and used them for personal gain. No such blatant evidence exists in the case of the Clinton Foundation, and any media narrative that attempts to equate the two charities would be doing a disservice to all voters, including Trump’s supporters. If Trump’s bigotry were not enough to bring his morals into question, the malfeasance at his foundation should undermine his image as a scourge of corruption in America.
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  #1955  
Old 06-19-2018, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
By the way, I don't see much reason to respond to this. Its not a news story. Its been going on for years. In fact, I think we've posted on this before. Remember the posts from a few years ago showing the kids sitting on top of trains coming up through Mexico, and the buildings in which they were warehoused when they got here?

A lot of those kids, we discussed at the time, were sent here alone, or with other siblings, cousins, whatever, but in many cases they were travelling without their parents.

So, nothing really new here. The only thing that's new is the left's breathless attempt to blame, which is nothing new either.

So, by all means, yap on....

You're a typical Trump follower, a garden variety liar. Is it a 'monkey see, monkey do' thing for you or do you come by it naturally?


Four pinocchios - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.bed712b10eb5
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Last edited by bobabode; 06-19-2018 at 03:30 PM.
  #1956  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
QFT. However, it's debatable if Jeb is even a Republican anymore. He's politically homeless, like every other decent (former) Republican.
Last time I looked our judiciary is independent.

The 1968 Southern Strategy put the GOP on their disreputable path.
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Last edited by nailer; 06-19-2018 at 03:11 PM.
  #1957  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:30 PM
Chicks Chicks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
Last time I looked our judiciary is independent.
I’m beginning to wonder if you’re a native English speaker. Read the sentence again, slowly: We would have respect for the FBI and the independence of the Judiciary...

The “respect for” bit includes both parts of the following sentence structure.
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  #1958  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
Nope, more like breaking campaign promises that were made just to get/keep your base's votes. In this case Trump is keeping his build the wall (hostile anti-immigration platform) promise.

Forget to answer the question or just afraid of being outed?
No, I did answer your question. The folks entering this country illegally are breaking the law. There are legal processes that have been in place for a while about how to deal with those who attempt to enter this country illegally. Just because other presidents found ways to skirt the law - I think in a prior discussion on this very topic another poster (Finn maybe) lauded Obama for using "proprietorial discretion" - but now the law is being enforced.

OK, said I wouldn't respond to all this, but here I go.

The bottom line is that the entire situation is a mess. You have immigrants arriving in huge caravans that are meant to overload the border enforcement infrastructure when they arrive. They are processed through as system that, downstream, is a hodgepodge of historically understaffed and under-resourced facilities and governed under a hodgepodge of immigration laws and court rulings that are not complementary. The result is unintended consequences that are not in the best interests of citizens in this country (and make no mistake, immigration laws historically are about benefiting and protecting the country and its citizens). Trump didn't create the issue, nor did he write the laws or policies that are currently being enforced.

As for this nonsense about "Trump separating kids from their parents", that too has been going on for years. In many cases, that was actual policy. To deal with human trafficking, for instance, unaccompanied minors were allowed to stay in the US under US law. Note that they were "unaccompanied" when they arrived, and allowed to stay, which means they were separated before they left. That's still going on today.

You also have a similar issue - parents seeking entry to join children already in the US.

Human Rights Watch has previously documented the harms caused by the Obama administration’s aggressive immigration enforcement at the border on people seeking to join their US citizen children or other loved ones. The present analysis is based on CBP data Human Rights Watch recently obtained through the Freedom of Information Act on the nearly 700,000 adult and child migrants that the CBP apprehended along the US border in fiscal years 2011 and 2012, the most recent data Human Rights Watch obtained.

Human Rights Watch estimates that more than 101,900 of these migrants – about 15 percent – were a parent of a US citizen child. Collectively, these migrants say they are the parents of more than 202,000 American children. Though having a US citizen child does not mean in all cases that a non-citizen has substantial ties to the US, it is an indicator of the strong possibility of such ties.


How did the kids get in country in the first place? They were brought here or arrived here illegally, but the broken and occasionally enforced immigration system left them here and deported their parents. Again, this has been going on for years.

Not to say that this is "right" or that it shouldn't be addressed, but the play the blame game over something that has been going on for years strikes me as disingenuous in the extreme.
  #1959  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:49 PM
Chicks Chicks is offline
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Monday, July 18, 2018

Dear Rev. Boykin and Rev. Wines,

We, the undersigned laity and clergy of the United Methodist Church, issue a formal complaint against fellow United Methodist layperson Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, by our understanding a lay member of Ashland Place United Methodist Church, in Mobile, AL, and an active participant in Clarendon United Methodist Church, Arlington, VA. While we are reticent to bring a formal complaint against a layperson, Mr. Sessions’ unique combination of tremendous social/political power, his leading role as a Sunday School teacher and former delegate to General Conference, and the severe and ongoing impact of several of his public, professional actions demand that we, as his siblings in the United Methodist denomination, call for some degree of accountability.
We write to you, Mr. Sessions’ pastors, copying his District Superintendents and Bishops, in the hopes that you will, as members of our connectional system, dig deeply into Mr. Sessions’ advocacy and actions that have led to harm against thousands of vulnerable humans. As members of the United Methodist Church, we deeply hope for a reconciling process that will help this long-time member of our connection step back from his harmful actions and work to repair the damage he is currently causing to immigrants, particularly children and families.

Signed,

600 pastors and members of Jeffy’s church (they got the month wrong!)

http://s3.amazonaws.com/Website_Prop...n_Sessions.pdf
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  #1960  
Old 06-19-2018, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
No, I did answer your question. The folks entering this country illegally are breaking the law. There are legal processes that have been in place for a while about how to deal with those who attempt to enter this country illegally. Just because other presidents found ways to skirt the law - I think in a prior discussion on this very topic another poster (Finn maybe) lauded Obama for using "proprietorial discretion" - but now the law is being enforced.

OK, said I wouldn't respond to all this, but here I go.

The bottom line is that the entire situation is a mess. You have immigrants arriving in huge caravans that are meant to overload the border enforcement infrastructure when they arrive. They are processed through as system that, downstream, is a hodgepodge of historically understaffed and under-resourced facilities and governed under a hodgepodge of immigration laws and court rulings that are not complementary. The result is unintended consequences that are not in the best interests of citizens in this country (and make no mistake, immigration laws historically are about benefiting and protecting the country and its citizens). Trump didn't create the issue, nor did he write the laws or policies that are currently being enforced.

As for this nonsense about "Trump separating kids from their parents", that too has been going on for years. In many cases, that was actual policy. To deal with human trafficking, for instance, unaccompanied minors were allowed to stay in the US under US law. Note that they were "unaccompanied" when they arrived, and allowed to stay, which means they were separated before they left. That's still going on today.

You also have a similar issue - parents seeking entry to join children already in the US.

Human Rights Watch has previously documented the harms caused by the Obama administration’s aggressive immigration enforcement at the border on people seeking to join their US citizen children or other loved ones. The present analysis is based on CBP data Human Rights Watch recently obtained through the Freedom of Information Act on the nearly 700,000 adult and child migrants that the CBP apprehended along the US border in fiscal years 2011 and 2012, the most recent data Human Rights Watch obtained.

Human Rights Watch estimates that more than 101,900 of these migrants – about 15 percent – were a parent of a US citizen child. Collectively, these migrants say they are the parents of more than 202,000 American children. Though having a US citizen child does not mean in all cases that a non-citizen has substantial ties to the US, it is an indicator of the strong possibility of such ties.


How did the kids get in country in the first place? They were brought here or arrived here illegally, but the broken and occasionally enforced immigration system left them here and deported their parents. Again, this has been going on for years.

Not to say that this is "right" or that it shouldn't be addressed, but the play the blame game over something that has been going on for years strikes me as disingenuous in the extreme.
I'm not playing the blame game nor asking a political question. And you're still evading the moral question.
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