FAKE NEWS EXPOSED: A Service of PoliticalChat.com

[Chicks]

Hungary’s autocratic PM Orban addressing US conservatives

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midt...05f48d3b527a76

His visit to Texas comes after new outrage flared back home over a speech in which Orban railed against Europe becoming a “mixed-race” society. One of his closest associates compared the comments to the Nazis and resigned in protest.

Whell's pals have no problem with nazis.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Chicks

Hungary’s autocratic PM Orban addressing US conservatives

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midt...05f48d3b527a76

Whell's pals have no problem with nazis.

It's beyond having no problem with fascism. They're actively courting it and taking tips from Orban on how to destroy our democracy here in favor of their preferred brand of Christofascism.
https://lucid.substack.com/p/tucker-...tor-orban-plan

[Oerets]

______

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

White Nationalists do indeed enjoy support from kindred spirits within US police departments. It's a widely reported and researched phenomena, both by the press and the FBI itself. I'd like to say that I'm surprised you didn't already know about this widely-reported phenomena, but I guess it doesn't get much coverage in your favored wingnut news sources. To wit:

A Reuters investigation on May 6 indicates that a significant number of U.S. police instructors have ties to a constellation of armed right-wing militias and white supremacist hate groups, a report that adds to a fast-growing body of evidence showing a deadly threat inside U.S. police departments.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/govern...ge-2022-05-12/

Exactly 10 years ago this week, the FBI warned of the potential consequences of white supremacist groups infiltrating local and state law enforcement, indicating it was a significant threat to national security.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...aw-enforcement

The F.B.I.’s counterterrorism division warned that white-supremacist groups were increasingly infiltrating local law enforcement, and federal agents working undercover against violent racist and far-right groups have long been instructed to keep local law enforcement in the dark, because of possible links or sympathies.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily...hite-supremacy

A data breach at a Christian crowdfunding website has revealed that serving police officers and public officials have donated money to fundraisers for accused vigilante murderers, far-right activists, and fellow officers accused of shooting black Americans.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...te-data-breach

There have even also been multiple hearings on the subject in Congress. Here's the transcript of a hearing entitled:
CONFRONTING VIOLENT WHITE SUPREMACY:
WHITE SUPREMACY IN BLUE - THE INFILTRATION OF LOCAL POLICE

If I were you, I would heed Abe Lincoln's advice:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

Yes, I agree you need to heed Lincoln's advice. The problem again, Finn, is you jump to the conclusion that "it happening" with insufficient information. Right from the PBD article you posted:

In light of — or perhaps despite — the increased scrutiny, FBI director James Comey told police officers at a national conference last Sunday that because of insufficient data on use of force, “Americans actually have no idea” whether racial bias in policing is really an epidemic. Pointing to current public outrage over police killings of African-Americans, Comey said “the absence of good information” and data has aided in the growing belief that police officers target particular communities.

From the Reuters article:

The analysis by Reuters found at least 15 self-identified law enforcement trainers and dozens of retired instructors listed in a database of members of the Oath Keepers, one of several violent anti-government groups that led the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

15 and dozens? Doesn't sound like a "Prevalence", the word that appears in the Reuters headline. But certainly, that not the only such "finding" by Reuters. So, just for illustration, let's inflate the hell out of that number.

Let's say its 1500 law enforcement officers with suspected ties to "white supremacist" groups. There are over 697000 law enforcement officers - using 2020 data - employed in the US. A little quick math: that's 0.2% of law enforcement officers. I don't think .0.2% represents a "Prevalence".

What if we really inflate the hell out of that number? Let's say its 5000 officers with suspected ties to white nationalist groups. Hmmmm....we still are less than 1%, ad still far from a "Prevalence".

Referring to the Reuters article, a litany of examples are cited as evidence of the "epidemic" of police associated wth such groups. Specifically a case in Texas in 2001 and Florida in 2014. How many officers were involved in these incidents?

Texas 2001 - 2 officers
Florida 2014 - 2 officers (and one more in 2009).

In both cases, the respective police departments got rid of these officers when their membership came to light. Further:

County Sheriff John Maspero said there was no evidence the two men, Deputy David Gay, 45, and Sgt. Greg Palm, 29, had committed any acts of discrimination or failed to perform their duties, but said membership in the notorious hate group was sufficient reason to dismiss them.

So, good on the TX Sherriff that they dumped these to officers. However, at least in that case, there was no indication that their KKK membership impacted their job performance. Florida as well terminated their two (three) law enforcement employees.

The takeaway is that when found out, law enforcement leadership rids itself of these individuals. That's a good thing.

One other interesting statistic that runs counter to your premise is that the number of large city police chiefs who are minorities is growing. Consistent with that are efforts to increase the diversity of police officers. Some cities have done a pretty good job achieving that, and others continue to address it. As police departments diversify, common sense would suggest that the percentage of officers suspected to be members of such groups would fall accordingly.

So, to sum up:

Has there been reporting on the warning that such groups are interested in being employed in the law enforcement community? Yes

Has there been research on the RISK of this happening? Yes

Is there ANECDOTAL evidence of members of the law enforcement community being involved in such groups? Yes, and when that evidence came to light, the officers in question were terminated.

Is it happening in a way that would suggest, to borrow words used in the posted articles, an "Epidemic"? A "Prevalance"? No

Does any of this support your statement that, in general, the police have kindred spirits in the White Nationalist movement? Maybe in the wildest stretch of imagination, that number is probably less than 1%, and likely far less.

Does any of this support your statement that "...the data is clear that most of the violence associated with the BLM protestors was against the protestors and perpetrated by the police and their kindred spirits in the White Nationalist movement". Hell no. You posted a bunch of "stuff", and then made a giant leap to conclude that most of the violence in question was perpetrated by cops in league with White Supremacists.

Here's an example, right around the corner from you: https://www.virginiamercury.com/2020...s-complicated/

After a night of destructive protests in Richmond involving a torched dump truck, shattered windows, chemical agents and several arrests, Mayor Levar Stoney made a surprising claim.

White supremacists “marching under the banner of Black Lives Matter,” he said Sunday, had “spearheaded” the violence.

“Last night shows that the real hate comes from the racism that is still very much alive in our commonwealth,” Stoney said. “And some have used this moment to still express that hate.”

Later in the same article:

But Richmond officials have presented no direct evidence showing white supremacists organized the protest, encouraged violence or participated in any property damage.

Early Tuesday afternoon, The Virginia Mercury asked officials to clarify the basis for the mayor’s comments. As of Wednesday evening, neither the Richmond Police Department nor the mayor’s office had provided additional evidence of white supremacist influence.

Sounds more like race-baiting than statements of fact.

I'd be interested in seeing evidence you may have that supports your allegation. I tried to find some. All I could find was a single Politico article that suggests the FBI, in a memo, said "Anarchist and militia extremists could try to exploit the recent nationwide protests spurred by the death of George Floyd..." The FBI's memo indicated their assessment was based on a telegram they intercepted.

One telegram. From one story by Politico. And that story, incidentally, doesn't appear to have been picked up by any other major news outlet.

As Bob likes to say, "pretty weak sauce" Finn.

[Rajoo]

Does the same 0.2% hold in the Secret Service? Just wondering.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by whell

Yes, I agree you need to heed Lincoln's advice. The problem again, Finn, is you jump to the conclusion that "it happening" with insufficient information. Right from the PBD article you posted:

In light of — or perhaps despite — the increased scrutiny, FBI director James Comey told police officers at a national conference last Sunday that because of insufficient data on use of force, “Americans actually have no idea” whether racial bias in policing is really an epidemic. Pointing to current public outrage over police killings of African-Americans, Comey said “the absence of good information” and data has aided in the growing belief that police officers target particular communities.

From the Reuters article:

The analysis by Reuters found at least 15 self-identified law enforcement trainers and dozens of retired instructors listed in a database of members of the Oath Keepers, one of several violent anti-government groups that led the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

15 and dozens? Doesn't sound like a "Prevalence", the word that appears in the Reuters headline. But certainly, that not the only such "finding" by Reuters. So, just for illustration, let's inflate the hell out of that number.

Let's say its 1500 law enforcement officers with suspected ties to "white supremacist" groups. There are over 697000 law enforcement officers - using 2020 data - employed in the US. A little quick math: that's 0.2% of law enforcement officers. I don't think .0.2% represents a "Prevalence".

What if we really inflate the hell out of that number? Let's say its 5000 officers with suspected ties to white nationalist groups. Hmmmm....we still are less than 1%, ad still far from a "Prevalence".

Referring to the Reuters article, a litany of examples are cited as evidence of the "epidemic" of police associated wth such groups. Specifically a case in Texas in 2001 and Florida in 2014. How many officers were involved in these incidents?

Texas 2001 - 2 officers
Florida 2014 - 2 officers (and one more in 2009).

In both cases, the respective police departments got rid of these officers when their membership came to light. Further:

County Sheriff John Maspero said there was no evidence the two men, Deputy David Gay, 45, and Sgt. Greg Palm, 29, had committed any acts of discrimination or failed to perform their duties, but said membership in the notorious hate group was sufficient reason to dismiss them.

So, good on the TX Sherriff that they dumped these to officers. However, at least in that case, there was no indication that their KKK membership impacted their job performance. Florida as well terminated their two (three) law enforcement employees.

The takeaway is that when found out, law enforcement leadership rids itself of these individuals. That's a good thing.

One other interesting statistic that runs counter to your premise is that the number of large city police chiefs who are minorities is growing. Consistent with that are efforts to increase the diversity of police officers. Some cities have done a pretty good job achieving that, and others continue to address it. As police departments diversify, common sense would suggest that the percentage of officers suspected to be members of such groups would fall accordingly.

So, to sum up:

Has there been reporting on the warning that such groups are interested in being employed in the law enforcement community? Yes

Has there been research on the RISK of this happening? Yes

Is there ANECDOTAL evidence of members of the law enforcement community being involved in such groups? Yes, and when that evidence came to light, the officers in question were terminated.

Is it happening in a way that would suggest, to borrow words used in the posted articles, an "Epidemic"? A "Prevalance"? No

Does any of this support your statement that, in general, the police have kindred spirits in the White Nationalist movement? Maybe in the wildest stretch of imagination, that number is probably less than 1%, and likely far less.

Does any of this support your statement that "...the data is clear that most of the violence associated with the BLM protestors was against the protestors and perpetrated by the police and their kindred spirits in the White Nationalist movement". Hell no. You posted a bunch of "stuff", and then made a giant leap to conclude that most of the violence in question was perpetrated by cops in league with White Supremacists.

Here's an example, right around the corner from you: https://www.virginiamercury.com/2020...s-complicated/

After a night of destructive protests in Richmond involving a torched dump truck, shattered windows, chemical agents and several arrests, Mayor Levar Stoney made a surprising claim.

White supremacists “marching under the banner of Black Lives Matter,” he said Sunday, had “spearheaded” the violence.

“Last night shows that the real hate comes from the racism that is still very much alive in our commonwealth,” Stoney said. “And some have used this moment to still express that hate.”

Later in the same article:

But Richmond officials have presented no direct evidence showing white supremacists organized the protest, encouraged violence or participated in any property damage.

Early Tuesday afternoon, The Virginia Mercury asked officials to clarify the basis for the mayor’s comments. As of Wednesday evening, neither the Richmond Police Department nor the mayor’s office had provided additional evidence of white supremacist influence.

Sounds more like race-baiting than statements of fact.

I'd be interested in seeing evidence you may have that supports your allegation. I tried to find some. All I could find was a single Politico article that suggests the FBI, in a memo, said "Anarchist and militia extremists could try to exploit the recent nationwide protests spurred by the death of George Floyd..." The FBI's memo indicated their assessment was based on a telegram they intercepted.

One telegram. From one story by Politico. And that story, incidentally, doesn't appear to have been picked up by any other major news outlet.

As Bob likes to say, "pretty weak sauce" Finn.

Stop lying your ass off and I'd let you off the hook, Mike. Of course, then you wouldn't have anything to post my obtuse friend.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Yes, I agree you need to heed Lincoln's advice. The problem again, Finn, is you jump to the conclusion that "it happening" with insufficient information...

All I said was that there were White Nationalist kindred spirits within American police. The FBI, numerous independent studies and the US Congress agree with me and I find your verbal vomit somewhere between unconvincing and irrelevant, just as I did when you tried to argue that 95% is not "most."

I think you make these bad faith arguments to convince yourself that it is somehow righteous to side with an increasingly anti-democratic/fascist political movement. Pro tip: It's not.

[Chicks]

Alex Jones must pay $4.1 million to Sandy Hook parents, jury rules

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ok-trial-jury/

Sorry, Whell - you'll have to get your fake news elsewhere.

Basically a slap on the wrist for this cretin, though. $150 million was the ask.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

You posted a link to an article where you state Trump's DOJ curtailed the Kavanaugh investigation. However, the article you linked to makes no such statement.

Sworn testimony today between Sheldon Whitehouse and FBI director Ray revealed that it was, in fact, worse than I thought. The White House dictated to the FBI which witnesses could be interviewed and possibly which questions could even be asked.

WHITEHOUSE: Is it also true that in that supplemental BI [background investigation], the FBI took direction from the White House as to whom the FBI would question and even what questions the FBI could ask?
WRAY: So it is true ... as to the who. I am not sure as I sit here whether it is true as to the what questions.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...augh-tip-line/

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

All I said was that there were White Nationalist kindred spirits within American police. The FBI, numerous independent studies and the US Congress agree with me and I find your verbal vomit somewhere between unconvincing and irrelevant, just as I did when you tried to argue that 95% is not "most."

I think you make these bad faith arguments to convince yourself that it is somehow righteous to side with an increasingly anti-democratic/fascist political movement. Pro tip: It's not.

Speaking of bad faith arguments, that not “all you said”, and i suspect you know that. In case you forgot, post 1941:
In any event, the data is clear that most of the violence associated with the BLM protestors was against the protestors and perpetrated by the police and their kindred spirits in the White Nationalist movement.

That was preceded by you posting twice that a white nationalist sparked the 2020 riots in MN.

You have no proof of either. Your posts about white nationalists being “prevalent” in the police force were at best exaggerated, and I’m sure you found my “verbal vomit somewhere between unconvincing and irrelevant” exactly because the post went through chapter and verse how it is unlikely.

Then, to drive home your lame argument, you attempt a gratuitous slam suggesting that I’m somehow aligned with the left’s favorite straw men. I suppose you think it sends a tingle up Chick’s leg when you do that. Here’s a pro tip: It does.