Gun control brainstorming?

[Bigerik]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

There is a prevalent "all or nothing" mindset down here. Many have come to believe that to give an inch is to lose everything. It's really just a scare tactic relentlessly pushed by the gun lobby and the related political machine. It is, of course, utter nonsense.

Regards,
Dave

Actually, I am a little confused. I was told by some of my Republican buddies that Obama would confiscate all the guns in his first term anyway. So that didn't happen?

[icenine]

It is very simple
Americans have unfettered access to guns and thus a very high murder rate. All of the western nations in Europe and Canada have low gun death rates because the ability to have access to assault weapons and personal handguns is controlled. In other words you cannot get drunk at a bar without alcohol.

It is not Hollywood, it is not the internet, it is not a decline in morals, all the usual bullshit platitudes.

It looks from my pop-psychology analysis that the shooter's mother enjoyed automatic weapons and had them in her house, and her son just happened to be a paranoid schizophrenic and decided to shoot up his elementary school (and his mom's work space)with her collection.

However offensive Wasillaguy's comparison to automobile deaths is he is basically right: we as a nation are willing to allow periodic massacres of children in exchange for the privilege of owning handguns, automatic rifles and 100-round magazines.

[BlueStreak]

"Mass killings have existed since the invention of weapons. The worst in American history happened in 1927, when a man in Michigan who was enraged by tax increases killed 44 people, including 38 elementary schoolchildren."

Damn guntoting wingnuts.

Seriously, I see no reference to "other countries" in the article you posted, so......................

He seems to be asserting that using mass homicides to advance gun control measures, "...is the wrong approach." I take that to mean he supports seeking gun controls, but just thinks we're going about it the wrong way.

Also, I do see the number "....more than 8,000 people a year killed with guns.". Other estimates I've seen run as high as 12,000. But regardless both numbers are atrociously bad, even (Especially?) taken in the global context.

What we are doing here, in the US, is not working.

Regards,
Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Bigerik

Actually, I am a little confused. I was told by some of my Republican buddies that Obama would confiscate all the guns in his first term anyway. So that didn't happen?

No. AFAIK, the Obama administration hasn't introduced a single piece of gun control legislation to date. Not one. Most of the things those people firmly believe is nothing but paraniod shit that only exists inside their echo ridden circles, Erik.

But, I'm sure you've taken note of that.

Regards,
Dave

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

No. AFAIK, the Obama administration hasn't introduced a single piece of gun control legislation to date. Not one. Most of the things those people firmly believe is nothing but paraniod shit that only exists inside their echo ridden circles, Erik.

But, I'm sure you've taken note of that.

Regards,
Dave

I think propaganda is a better term than paranoia. Republicans have very little left but religion and the second amendment. Well that and the vast majority of wealth.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by mpholland

I think propaganda is a better term than paranoia. Republicans have very little left but religion and the second amendment. Well that and the vast majority of wealth.

I'd say it's both;

Paranoia induced by propaganda designed to do just that.
Gotta hand it to them....They're good at it.

Regards,
Dave

[mpholland]

Please recognize I am not at all familiar with Canada laws. So would I be right in assuming that even though these are both the same gun, one would be legal and the other wouldn't?

[Bigerik]

Overview of Gun Control regs in Canada:

Individuals who wish to possess or acquire firearms in Canada must have a valid possession-acquisition, or possession-only, licence (PAL/POL); either of these licences allows the licensee to purchase ammunition. The PAL is distributed exclusively by the RCMP and is generally obtained in the following three steps:
Safety training: To be eligible to receive a PAL, all applicants must successfully complete the Canadian Firearms Safety Course[15] (CFSC) for a non-restricted licence, and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course[16] (CRFSC) for a restricted licence; the non-restricted class is a prerequisite to the restricted licence. The RCMP publishes information on the locations and availability of these courses.[17]
Applying for a licence: Currently only one type of licence is available to new applicants, the possession-acquisition licence (PAL). People can request a PAL by filling out Form CAFC 921.[18]
Security screening: Background checks and investigations are performed. All applicants are screened, and a mandatory 28-day waiting period is imposed on first-time applicants, but response time may be longer.[19]

Registering firearms. In order to be legally owned, a restricted or prohibited firearm must be registered in the Canadian Firearms Registry, which stores all data regarding firearms in Canada. To register a firearm into the system, a firearm must first be verified; its identification and classification being confirmed by an authorized verifier working with the RCMP. One must submit a registration application, which can be done online. If the firearm is being transferred from one owner to another the process can be done by telephone. Firearm registration certificates do not expire and do not need to be renewed. The Canadian Firearms Registry Online (CFRO) is accessible to police through CPIC.
Public Agents Firearms Regulations, which took effect on October 31, 2008, require public service agencies to report all firearms in their possession. Agency firearms are those used by employees (i.e. service firearms) while protected firearms are those that have been found or seized or are otherwise being held. The timely reporting and sharing of information about protected firearms is particularly important for police as it will have a significant impact on investigators' efforts to monitor the locations, movement and distribution of illicit firearms in Canada.

[Bigerik]

Guns and Magazines:

Some magazines are prohibited regardless of the class of firearm to which the magazines are attached. As a general rule, under the Criminal Code of Canada, the maximum magazine capacity is:
5 cartridges for most magazines designed for rifles that shoot centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic fashion
3 rounds for shotguns, tubular magazines that hold more are legal, but MUST be plugged to limit capacity to 3 rounds while hunting.
10 cartridges for most handgun magazines
Many common magazines are manufactured to hold more cartridges than law allows in Canada. These magazines must be permanently altered by individuals or businesses so they no longer hold more than the number of cartridges allowed by law. Acceptable ways to alter a magazine are set out in the Criminal Code Regulations[22].
There is no limit to the magazine capacity for:
semi-automatic, rim-fire rifles
manually operated rifles or shotguns (i.e.: lever-action, pump-action or bolt-action)

Storage
Non-restricted firearms must be unloaded and:
made inoperable with a secure locking device (such as a trigger lock); OR
have bolt(s) or bolt-carrier(s) removed; OR
securely locked in a sturdy container, cabinet or room that cannot be easily broken into
except if: (1) in areas where it is legal to fire a gun, non-restricted firearms needed for predator control can temporarily be left unlocked and operable, but they must be kept unloaded and all ammunition must be stored separately, and (2) in wilderness areas, non-restricted firearms can be left unlocked and/or operable, but must be left unloaded (ammunition may be kept nearby).
Restricted firearms must be unloaded and:
made inoperable with a secure locking device (such as a trigger lock) and securely locked in a sturdy container, cabinet or room that cannot be easily broken into; OR
locked in a vault, safe or room that was built or adapted for storing these types of firearms
for automatic firearms, the bolt(s) or bolt-carrier(s) must be removed, if removable, and stored in a separate locked room that cannot be easily broken into
Ammunition:
must be kept in a location where it is not available for loading the firearm, unless both the firearm and its ammunition are securely locked up
Transportation
Firearms left unattended in a car must be locked in the trunk or in a similar lockable compartment. If the vehicle does not have a trunk or compartment, the firearm must be placed out of sight inside the vehicle and the vehicle must be locked (same rules apply for transport of replica firearms)
Non-restricted firearms must be: transported unloaded (with the exception of muzzle-loading rifles, which can be transported loaded between hunting sites so long as the firing cap or flint is removed).
Restricted and prohibited firearms must be: unloaded, made inoperable with a secure locking device, and locked in a sturdy container, bolt(s) or bolt-carrier(s) must be removed, if removable.

[Bigerik]

According to licences, firearms are classified into prohibited, restricted and non-restricted categories, as defined by Part III of Criminal Code (R.S., 1985, c. C-46)[27] Note: The word "prohibited" is a classification and does not indicate that such firearms are "prohibited" as per the normal use of the word.
Prohibited firearms include:
Handguns
with a barrel length inferior to 105 millimetres (4.1 in), or;
that are designed to discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition;
exceptions are stated in the Regulations Prescribing Exclusions from Certain Definitions of the Criminal Code International Sporting Competition Handguns[28]
Rifles and shotguns that have been altered by sawing, cutting or any other means, so that:
the barrel length is inferior to 457 millimetres (18.0 in) (regardless of overall length), or;
the overall length is inferior to 660 millimetres (26 in)
Firearms which have fully automatic fire capability, or "converted automatics" (i.e.: firearms which were originally semi-automatic, but have been modified to discharge ammunition in a automatic fashion)
Firearms prescribed as prohibited by the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted (SOR/98-462)[22]:
Firearm capable of discharging dart or other object carrying electrical current or substance, including Taser Public Defender and any variant or modified version of it
Firearm known as SSS-1 Stinger and any similar firearm designed or of a size to fit in the palm of the hand
Carbines, rifles and shotguns of designs commonly known as, including any variants or modified versions of them:
A.A. Arms AR9 semi-auto rifle and AR-9 carbine
AK-47 rifle and all variants, including AK Hunter, AKM, AKM-63, AKS-56S, AKS-56S-1/2, AKS-74, AKS84S-1, AMD-65, AR Model .223, Dragunov, Galil, KKMPi69, M60, M62, M70B1, M70AB2, M76, M77B1, M78, M80, M80A, MAK90, MPiK, MPiKM, MPiKMS-72, MPiKS, PKM, PKM-DGN-60, PMKM, RPK, RPK-74, RPK-87S, Type 56, 56-1, 56-2, 56-3, 56-4, Type 68, Type 79, American Arms AKY39, AKF39, AKC47 and AKF47, MAM70WS762, Mitchell AK-22, AK-47 and Heavy Barrel AK-47, Norinco 84S, 84S AK, 56, 56-1/2/3/4, Poly Technologies Inc. AK-47/S, AKS-47/S and AKS-762, Valmet M76, M76 carbine, M78/A2, M78 LMG, M82 and M82 Bullpup, except: Valmet Hunter, Hunter Auto and M78
American 180 auto-carbine, including AM-180 and Illinois Arms Co. Model 180 auto-carbines
Armalite AR-180 Sporter carbine
Barrett "Light 50" Model 82A1 & Model 90 rifles
Benelli M1 Super 90 and M3 Super 90 shotguns, except: M1 Super 90 (Field/Sporting Special), Montefeltro Super 90 (Standard Hunter/Left Hand/Turkey/Uplander/Slug/20 Gauge), Black Eagle (Limited Ed./Competition/Slug Gun), Super Black Eagle (Custom Slug)
Beretta AR70 assault rifle
Bernardelli B4 and B4/B shotguns
BM 59 rifle, including: Beretta BM 59, BM 59R, BM 59GL, BM 59D, BM 59 MkE, BM 59 MkI/MkII/MkIII, BM 59 Mk Ital/Ital TA/TP/Para and BM 60CB, as well as Springfield Armory BM 59 Alpine, BM 59 Alpine Paratrooper and BM 59 Nigerian MkIV
Bushmaster auto-rifle
Calico M-900 rifle, including M-951, M-100 and M-105 carbines
Cetme Sport auto-rifle
Claridge HI-TEC C, LEC, ZLEC-9 carbines
Daewoo K1, K1A1, K2, Max1, Max2, AR-100, AR-110C, MAXI-II and KC-20 rifles
Demro TAC-1M and XF-7 Wasp carbines
Eagle Apache carbine
Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45 carbines
FAMAS rifle, including MAS223, FAMAS Export, FAMAS Civil and Mitchell MAS/22
Feather AT-9 semi-auto carbine and AT-22 auto-carbine
Federal XC-900, XC-220 rifles and XC-450 auto-rifle
Fabrique Nationale FN FNC, FNC-11, FNC-22, FNC-33, FNC Auto and FNC Auto Paratrooper rifles, as well as FN FAL, FN 308 Model44, FAL Competition Auto, FAL Heavy Barrel 308 Match, FAL Paratrooper 308 Match 50-64 and FN 308 Model 50-63
Franchi SPAS 12, LAW 12 shotguns
Franchi SPAS 15 shotgun
Galil assault rifle, including AP-84, ARM, AR, SAR, 332 and Mitchell Galil/22 auto-rifle
Gepard anti-materiel rifle
Goncz High-Tech carbine
Grendel R-31 auto-carbine
Heckler&Koch G3, G3A3, G3A3ZF, G3A4, G3SG/1, G11, HK33, 33A2, 33A3, 33KA1, HK91, 91A2, 91A3, 93, 93A2, 93A3, 94, 94A2, 94A3 and PSG-1 rifles, as well as: MP5, MP5A2, MP5A3, MP5K, MP5SD, MP5SD1, MP5SD2, MP5SD3 submachine guns
Iver Johnson AMAC long-range rifle and Plainfield Super Enforcer carbine
J&R Eng M-68, PJK M-68 and Wilkinson Terry carbines
Kimel Industries AR-9 rifle/carbine
Leader Mark Series auto-rifle
Maadi Griffin rifle/carbine
McMillan M87, M87R rifles and M88 carbine
Pauza Specialties P50 rifle and P50 carbine
PE57 rifle
Research Armament Industries Model 500 rifle
SIG AMT, SG-550 rifles and SG-551 carbine
Spectre auto-carbine
Springfield Armory SAR-48, SAR-48 Bush/Heavy Barrel/Para/22
Steyr AUG rifle
Striker, Striker 12 and Streetsweeper shotguns
Thompson submachine gun including: Model 1921, 1927, 1928, M1, Auto-Ordnance M27A-1, M27A-1 Deluxe, M1927A-3/A-5, Commando Arms MkI, MkII, MkIII, Mk9, Mk45
Universal Enforcer Model 3000 auto-carbine and Model 3010N, 3015G, 3020TRB and 3025TCO carbines
US Arms PMAI assault rifle
USAS-12 auto-shotgun
UZI, Mini-UZI and Model A carbines
Weaver Arms Nighthawk carbine
Pistols, revolvers and other handguns of designs commonly known as, including any variants or modified versions of them:
AA Arms AP-9 auto-pistol and AP-9, Target AP-9 and Mini AP-9 pistols
Bushmaster auto-pistol
Calico M-950 auto-pistol and M-110 pistol
Claridge Hi-Tec Models S, L, T, ZL-9 and ZT-9 pistols
Cobray M10, M11, and RPB M10/M11/SM10/SM11 and SWD M10/M11/SM10/SM11 pistols
CZ Skorpion auto-pistol
Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45 assault pistols, including MP-9, MP-45 mini pistols
Federal XP-450, XP-900 auto-pistols
Goncz High-Tech long pistol
Grendel P-30, P-30M, P-30L and P-31 pistols
Heckler&Koch SP89 auto-pistol
Ingram M10, M11 pistols
Interdynamics KG-99 assault pistol
Intratec Tec-9, Tec-9S, Tec-9M and Tec-9MS auto-pistols (as well as any semi-automatic variant including Tec-DC9, Tec-DC9M, Tec-9A, Tec-Scorpion, Tec-22T and Tec-22TN)
Iver Johnson Enforcer Model 3000 auto-pistol
Kimel Industries AP-9 pistol
Leader Mark5 auto-pistol
Maadi Griffin pistol
OA-93 assault pistol
Patriot pistol
Partisan Avenger auto-pistol
Spectre auto-pistol
Sterling MK6 carbine
Steyr SPP auto-pistol
Sterling Mk7, Mk7 C4 and Mk7 C8 pistols
US Arms PMAIP assault pistol
UZI, Micro-UZI pistols
XM231S pistol and A1, A2, A3 Flattop pistols
Restricted firearms are:[29]
Any handgun that is not prohibited (note: handguns are prohibited if the barrel length is inferior to 105 millimetres (4.1 in); handguns cannot be non-restricted)
Any firearm that is:
not prohibited;
that has a barrel length inferior to 470 millimetres (19 in), and;
that is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic fashion
Any firearm that can be fired when the overall length has been reduced by folding, telescoping, or other means to less than 660 millimetres (26 in)


Firearms prescribed as restricted by the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted (SOR/98-462),[22] and any variant or modified version of them:
High Standard Model 10 Series A & Series B
M-16 rifle, including Colt AR-15, AR-15 SPI/Sporter/Collapsible Stock Model/A2/A2 Carbine/A2 Government Model Rifle/A2 Government Model Target Rifle/A2 Government Model Carbine/A2 Sporter II/A2 H-BAR/A2 Delta H-BAR/A2 Delta H-Bar Match/9 mm Carbine, Armalite AR-15, AAI M15, AP74, EAC J-15, PWA Commando, SGW XM15A and CAR-AR, SWD AR-15, as well as any .22 calibre rimfire variant of it including Mitchell M16A-1/22, M-16/22, CAR-15/22, AP74 Auto Rifle
(Note: legally, restricted firearms can only be discharged at shooting ranges; so while one can use them in competitions, one cannot use them for hunting)
Non-restricted firearms are:
any other rifle or shotgun, other than those referred to above.