I think they're lying. And I think they know it.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

We do need health care reform but I have not seen a palatable solution provided by either party yet. As far as whats being currently presented, one would have to assume that even the current admin. and congress doesn't appear to like it much as they have excluded themselves from the need to participate.

I don't like what's being put forward either. I hesitate to say "by either party" because it's clear that the Republicans have no interest in effecting changes that aren't intended to benefit the insurance industry. Democrats, on the other hand, seem to want to make real improvements to our health care system but are too beholden to the health care monopoly to take things very far.

I understand that Germany's national health care program is starting to quake under the weight of it all. It's the oldest system of it's kind from what I have read.

I hadn't heard that. In any event, I'd want to hear it from multiple independent sources. The industry has been spreading false doom and gloom scenarios about other country's health care programs ever since this whole thing started. There's a lot of deliberate misinformation out there.

John

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I don't like what's being put forward either. I hesitate to say "by either party" because it's clear that the Republicans have no interest in effecting changes that aren't intended to benefit the insurance industry. Democrats, on the other hand, seem to want to make real improvements to our health care system but are too beholden to the health care monopoly to take things very far.

BINGO!

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I hadn't heard that. In any event, I'd want to hear it from multiple independent sources. The industry has been spreading false doom and gloom scenarios about other country's health care programs ever since this whole thing started. There's a lot of deliberate misinformation out there.

John

Grassley and Hatch flat out lied about the Canadian system, not deliberate mis-information, they both lied and they know they were lying, and Hatch is a Bishop? Some Bishop.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

We do need health care reform but I have not seen a palatable solution provided by either party yet. As far as whats being currently presented, one would have to assume that even the current admin. and congress doesn't appear to like it much as they have excluded themselves from the need to participate.

I understand that Germany's national health care program is starting to quake under the weight of it all. It's the oldest system of it's kind from what I have read.

RC

I don't see how any supporter of universal health care can possibly support the current legislation. From what I can gather all the present legislation does is demand that all those that can afford health insurance be obliged to buy it in return for dropping some pre existing conditions exclusions.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

You could always move to the Western European Socialist country of your choosing and pay @29% in national income tax and an additional VAT of 20%. That is of course after you pay property taxes where they apply and then put gas in your Hybrid at $5-6 per gallon equivalent.

Or... Just hang around for a spell. Pelosi is working on that as we speak. Your wish is just a few bills away.

RC

And where you don't need to pay $10,000 per year for health insurance. Where public transportation is so pervasive the hybrid will spend most of its life in the garage. When I once asked the governor why we could not do property taxes like the Germans do I was informed that would be counter to the State Constitution. There the tax is governed by the load you place on the infrastructure not the value of your land - over which you have no control.

[Fast_Eddie]

Extra credit- find the Clinton administration on the chart above.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Extra credit- find the Clinton administration on the chart above.

The thing I find astonishing is that Clinton didn't really get a handle on it until his second term when the shit really hit the fan. How that man got anything accomplished with the impeachment and Ken Starr and the Republican Congress digging into every aspect of his personal and professional life beggers belief.

John

[Fast_Eddie]

Well, I'm always up to talk about health care reform, but I'm a little disappointed that our friends on the right haven't come to talk about my assertion. Teabaggers are out protesting historically low tax rates and calling for rates that would almost certainly doom the American economy. Not only that, they are being led by people who know this to be the case and are lying to them. Finally, history has shown that Democrats have indeed taken the debt issue seriously when Republicans have not.

[merrylander]

As I said there is collaboration, or rather collusion, that is allowing this to happen. There is nothing "liberal" about a thief or the people who aid and abet.

Systems can be run honestly, if the State legislature does not wish to do so throw them out.

Being seasoned citizens we are bombarded with the medicare thieves who absolutely guarantee us a power chair even if our insurance and medicare turn us down. Oh, and we don't need to worry about the paperwork, they will take care of it, sure because they don't want us to see what a scam they are running.

When Florence fell down the stairs because her knee gave out we approached the big name firm that advertises chirlifts - first estimate $17,000. When he saw to look on my face he "called the home office" - it came down to $13,500.

I got online and found excellent chairlifts for - first estimate $6,500. They shipped even before they got our check, and when they found it was cash and not credit card the price dropped to $6,000. There are more predatory people out their preying on seniors because they know they can screw the government in the process. Face it, like Franklin surmised, Constitutional government would work very well until we bacame so corrupt that we need a despot. There are also the honest ones like Summit who built our chairlifts. Relative piece of cake to install and the usual charge is $400 per lift, if I was younger I would become an installer, easy money.

Corruption does not wear a liberal or conservative label, its sole motive is greed, why do you think we are in this mess. The government desrves blame for having put the fox in charge of the chicken house. I guess all this crap about how we are a Christian country lulled them into believing everyone would obey the ten commandments, they forgot the eleventh commandment.

No system is foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Systems can be run honestly, if the State legislature does not wish to do so throw them out.

Corruption does not wear a liberal or conservative label, its sole motive is greed, why do you think we are in this mess.

No system is foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

Words of wise wisdom Rob

Pete