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  #21  
Old 11-29-2013, 07:21 PM
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I'm in for Medicare for all. Kick the scheming skimmers out of the business of healthcare altogether. Who started this racket anyways? Oh, right - it was Nixon and old man Kaiser.
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2013, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by icenine View Post
I agree with you about malpractice reform. I think doctors may be willing to settle for less compensation if they do not have to worry about paying out the nose for malpractice insurance.

However when it is the government setting compensation rates and paying doctors for procedures they will have to have a say in what is done and how it is scheduled.

These doctors might not be government employees, but getting paid by the government makes them defacto government doctors.
So when the get paid by Kaiser P they are Kaiser employees? Or paid by Aetna they are Aetna employees? Come on Robbin get real.
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2013, 08:34 AM
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So when the get paid by Kaiser P they are Kaiser employees? Or paid by Aetna they are Aetna employees? Come on Robbin get real.
Right. It doesn't make them defacto anything. But, I think what Robbin is alluding to is that it puts them under financial sway of the government. Which is true. But, this would be no more true than when they under financial sway of healthcare companies.

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  #24  
Old 11-30-2013, 08:37 AM
Ike Bana Ike Bana is offline
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Originally Posted by icenine View Post
I mean the GOP will be up in arms if we had to increase taxes or cut defense to pay for single payer. I think the individual effective rate for the average UK citizen is around 30%...anyone from England here?

I know I did not pay that much in federal taxes last year.
Along with health care spending being twice the percentage of GDP of most other first world countries...so is our military spending. More than twice the percentage in most cases. For instance...Canada 1.2% of GDP USofA 4.4% of GDP. Germany 1.3%. France 2.3%. Want to know why we're in debt up to our nostrils? There you have the two primary reasons. Military spending approaching 5% of GDP, health care approaching 20% of GDP.

As far as taxes go...IMO the screed of Republicans and conservatives is that we have the greatest country on earth...a country worth fighting and dying for. Just not worth paying for.

As far as health care systems go...the only way to get a decent system with comparable outcomes with the rest of the developed world, at a reasonable cost is government sponsored single payer. There is one insurance based system...and it's a great system. It's the health care system in Switzerland. Basically it's the same as our Medicare advantage plans...only no premiums and no copays. The government pays the insurance companies that want to participate for the coverage and the people have several companies and a number of plans to choose from...so it individualizes it fine. The Swiss love it. They get the best healthcare in the world. It's a smidgen expensive...approaching 12% of their GDP, but for it they get the best life expectancy and infant mortality outcomes in the world. And they think we're nuts. Canadians and most Europeans think we're completely nuts.

Seems to me if there's a government sponsored health care system that might receive some support from the right, something like the Swiss/Medicare advantage systems would be it. On the other hand, I doubt it...since it's never going to be about getting 30,000 disadvantaged Americans covered and saving the lives of 40,000 Americans every year for the right.

It's about the "free market" being the best system for any system. That's a lie as well of course...as conservatives and Republicans have no interest in a real free market. They want their noses in the business of the people just as much as liberals and Democrats. It's where the money is.

And socially they just want their intrusion in different places. I want my nose in their gun locker, they want their nose in my wife's reproductive organs.

Last edited by Ike Bana; 11-30-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2013, 09:24 AM
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I frequently tell them where they can stick their nose when it comes to my anatomy.

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  #26  
Old 11-30-2013, 09:55 AM
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One other factor not mentionned so far. Over 60% of personal bankruptcies here are caused by medical expenses.
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2013, 10:12 AM
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icenine icenine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander View Post
So when the get paid by Kaiser P they are Kaiser employees? Or paid by Aetna they are Aetna employees? Come on Robbin get real.
indirectly yes
you or your employer is paying the insurance company.
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2013, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine View Post
indirectly yes
you or your employer is paying the insurance company.
This does not make me, or my employer, an employee of the insurance company.

Dave
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2013, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
This does not make me, or my employer, and employee of the insurance company.

Dave
i mean the doctor is an employee somewhere along the line. You pay him through an insurance company, which pays the doctor. It is a symbiotic relationship.
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  #30  
Old 11-30-2013, 10:44 AM
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I would think that a doctor in most cases is no different than I was as a consuktant - an independent contractor.
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