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  #21  
Old 06-24-2016, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
Doesn't mean they haven't adopted the attitude. Fitting in, you see.
That has been noted elsewhere. There is a tendency for black LEOs to be even more brutal when dealing with black citizens than is typical for their white counterparts. And all to gain the acceptance of their white peers.

So it's a blue issue and blue culture is a white culture.
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  #22  
Old 06-24-2016, 07:22 PM
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Don't commit crime? Don't wind up in cuffs. This isn't hard.

(Sigh...) Look, I know that's...harsh. And there was a day I didn't think that way.

But if you put enough people in cuffs for committing crimes, you recognize the issue is with the offender and not society.

Quite simply the guy was a criminal and something awful apparently occurred during the course of his arrest. How to avoid that? Don't require being arrested.

Problem solved.
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  #23  
Old 06-24-2016, 07:26 PM
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Don't commit crime? Don't wind up in cuffs. This isn't hard.
Freddie Gray committed no crime. He wound up dead. That's pretty fucking hard.
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  #24  
Old 06-25-2016, 12:38 PM
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Bullshit.

"Gray had a criminal record, on drug charges and minor crimes. Gray had been involved in 20 criminal court cases, five of which were still active at the time of his death, and was due in court on a possession charge on April 24. In February 2009, he was sentenced to four years in prison for two counts of drug possession with intent to deliver and was paroled in 2011. In 2012, he was arrested for violating parole but was not sent back to prison. In 2013, he returned to jail for a month before being released."

In this case, the formal statement of charges by Officer Miller alleged Gray "did unlawfully carry, possess, and sell a knife commonly known as a switch blade knife, with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade within the limits of Baltimore City."

The knife was recovered by the officer and found to be a spring assisted one hand operated knife.

Admittedly there is some murkiness as the state’s attorney for Baltimore City said the spring-assisted knife Gray was carrying was legal under Maryland law while a police task force said the knife was a violation of the Baltimore code under which Gray was charged, i.e. illegal in the city.

I'm going with the city being able to enforce codes within its boundaries.

Bottom line? Gray committed a crime, one of MANY throughout his life of criminality.

1. He wound up dead?
2. Don't commit crime.
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  #25  
Old 06-25-2016, 01:06 PM
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Bullshit.

"Gray had a criminal record, on drug charges and minor crimes. Gray had been involved in 20 criminal court cases, five of which were still active at the time of his death, and was due in court on a possession charge on April 24. In February 2009, he was sentenced to four years in prison for two counts of drug possession with intent to deliver and was paroled in 2011. In 2012, he was arrested for violating parole but was not sent back to prison. In 2013, he returned to jail for a month before being released."

In this case, the formal statement of charges by Officer Miller alleged Gray "did unlawfully carry, possess, and sell a knife commonly known as a switch blade knife, with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade within the limits of Baltimore City."

The knife was recovered by the officer and found to be a spring assisted one hand operated knife.

Admittedly there is some murkiness as the state’s attorney for Baltimore City said the spring-assisted knife Gray was carrying was legal under Maryland law while a police task force said the knife was a violation of the Baltimore code under which Gray was charged, i.e. illegal in the city.

I'm going with the city being able to enforce codes within its boundaries.

Bottom line? Gray committed a crime, one of MANY throughout his life of criminality.

1. He wound up dead?
2. Don't commit crime.
So, If I get this, his past history of petty crime was grounds for arrest?

They didn't know he had a knife when the chased him down. The issue if the knife isn't murky unless you beliefe the prosecutor is lying. It was legal and that particular charge was dropped while Gray was still alive. His "crime" was running while black.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/baltimor...ife-1432076045

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/us/freddie-gray-knife/
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  #26  
Old 06-25-2016, 08:08 PM
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I believe the issue was never settled due to the death of a criminal.

As for your interpretation of his current "crime," at best it should involve his history and environment upon being detained (race is irrelevant). That his detainment devolved into an actual arrest due to alleged illegal possession of a weapon is on him and no one else.

Gray's death is unfortunate but an overall victory for Natural Selection.
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  #27  
Old 06-26-2016, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
I believe the issue was never settled due to the death of a criminal.

As for your interpretation of his current "crime," at best it should involve his history and environment upon being detained (race is irrelevant). That his detainment devolved into an actual arrest due to alleged illegal possession of a weapon is on him and no one else.

Gray's death is unfortunate but an overall victory for Natural Selection.
Zeke I realize that your background affects the way you look at things. However you need to think what it is like for a young black man in Baltimore. Sure the mayor and most of the council are black, but most of the business owners are not, and they are the ones who do the hiring. The schools have only in recent times gotten the support they need. Turning to pushing drugs is quite easy to do if you can't make a buck any other way.
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Last edited by merrylander; 06-26-2016 at 03:05 PM.
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  #28  
Old 06-26-2016, 10:18 AM
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Zeke I realize that your background affects the way you look at things. However you need to think what it is like for a young black man in Baltimore. Sure the mayor and most of the council are black, but most od the business owners are not, and they are the ones who do the hiring. The schools have only in recent times gotten the support they need. Turning to pushing drugs is quite easy to do if you can't make a buck any other way.
Then there's the loss of industry. People of all races in Baltimore used to have no trouble getting good union jobs at places like Bethlehem Steel, GM's Broening Hwy plant, the Sparrows Point shipyards, Domino Sugar, McCormick Spice and a slew of other big employers, all of which are gone.
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  #29  
Old 06-26-2016, 10:21 AM
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I believe the issue was never settled due to the death of a criminal.
The issue of false arrest should not go unresolved. It should be an element of the prosecution's case against the arresting officers. If it is not, it will be a clear indication on prosecutorial malfeasance.
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  #30  
Old 06-26-2016, 01:51 PM
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The last three posts are rock solid and I appreciate folks separating my sometimes...linear...mode of thought regarding these things and me, personally.

I do not always deserve better.

But here's what I think truly galls me: any apologism for Gray is wholly similar to that for Natives who choose to become lost in alcohol, unemployment, drugs, crime, etc., with blame placed on society or environment. It's just NOT the fault of environment or society, it's a choice. That said choice begat eventual death is to me occupational hazard of the mindset and not inherent tragedy.

Cooked down to a reduction sauce, the only reason I'm where I am (degrees, experience, hope, options) and many Natives or Gray are where they wound up? It's because they chose the easy path.

FUCK'EM.

The Feds, for example, throw umpteen millions of dollars via the Bureau of Indian Affairs or through tribes to bring housing, education, healthcare, food services and the like to impoverished Native areas and similar funds -- through Community Service Block Grants, for example -- to the inner city.

Much of that $$$ lay dormant or unspent because there are conditions attached...you know, simple stuff like keeping the property up, undergoing treatment, addressing of legal issues (with requisite pro bono help!), showing up for appointments and the like.

But folks would rather mug, boost stereos, deal drugs or pimp their little sister for handjobs because, you know, "she's only fourteen." (Yes, I saw stuff like this.)

FUCK'EM.

Freddie Gray was a career criminal and wound up as career criminals often do when not protected from themselves via prison term.

I shed not a single tear for Freddie Gray.

I'll spare you a third declaration in bold.
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Last edited by Zeke; 06-26-2016 at 05:44 PM.
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