Take Up Arms Against the Gov't?

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

You obviously don’t understand “whataboutism.” Your numbers clearly show that Republicans are far more inclined to believe in the need to take up arms against the government. Moreover, Republican politicians are the only ones who fetishize guns and “Second Amendment solutions.” Own it, Whell.

"My" numbers? They "clearly show"?

First of all, this is a single survey presented as a thought piece. It was not presented as "conclusive evidence" about the beliefs of potential activities of one "side" or the other.

Second, the number of survey respondents that you say are "...far more inclined to take up arms..." was a subset of about 28% survey respondents who agreed with a survey statement that “it may be necessary at some point soon for citizens to take up arms against the government". That also means that 78% didn't agree with it, and that's also a pretty significant number.

Further of those 28% of survey respondents: "That view is held by one in three Republicans, including 45 percent of self-identified strong Republicans. Roughly one in three (35 percent) Independent voters and one in five Democrats agreed." That doesn't "clearly show" me that Repubs hold a unique point of view on this survey statement. It does show me that Republicans and Independents are far more likely to agree with this survey statement.

To add further context to these results, surveys show Democrats tend to have greater trust in government and government solutions than Republicans. That fact likely accounts for the most significant difference in survey responses between Dems and Repubs on a question like this.

And, OMG, if you truly believe that last sentence about "fetishizing guns", you truly are either blind or willingly choose to keep your head in the sand on this topic. Movies, video games, and music videos all glorify gun violence. The underlying message presented in these sources generally is that those people with guns who exercise their "Second Amendment solutions" have all the power.

Those "Second Amendment solutions" play out every day here in Detroit, in Chicago (truly a city nearing "out of control" status), and elsewhere. If and when arrested, the perps in these cases aren't polled for their political affiliation. If they were, my bet would be that they don't care one way or another.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

"My" numbers? They "clearly show"?

First of all, this is a single survey presented as a thought piece. It was not presented as "conclusive evidence" about the beliefs of potential activities of one "side" or the other.

Second, the number of survey respondents that you say are "...far more inclined to take up arms..." was a subset of about 28% survey respondents who agreed with a survey statement that “it may be necessary at some point soon for citizens to take up arms against the government". That also means that 78% didn't agree with it, and that's also a pretty significant number.

Further of those 28% of survey respondents: "That view is held by one in three Republicans, including 45 percent of self-identified strong Republicans. Roughly one in three (35 percent) Independent voters and one in five Democrats agreed." That doesn't "clearly show" me that Repubs hold a unique point of view on this survey statement. It does show me that Republicans and Independents are far more likely to agree with this survey statement.

To add further context to these results, surveys show Democrats tend to have greater trust in government and government solutions than Republicans. That fact likely accounts for the most significant difference in survey responses between Dems and Repubs on a question like this.

And, OMG, if you truly believe that last sentence about "fetishizing guns", you truly are either blind or willingly choose to keep your head in the sand on this topic. Movies, video games, and music videos all glorify gun violence. The underlying message presented in these sources generally is that those people with guns who exercise their "Second Amendment solutions" have all the power.

Those "Second Amendment solutions" play out every day here in Detroit, in Chicago (truly a city nearing "out of control" status), and elsewhere. If and when arrested, the perps in these cases aren't polled for their political affiliation. If they were, my bet would be that they don't care one way or another.

You're getting pretty verbose lately in defense of your wingnuttery, Mike. Wouldn't it be easier and more intellectually honest to admit to yourself that the GOP has become a party of nihilists who have given up on democracy in favor of an autocracy led by a malignant narcissist, inveterate liar and a traitor to our national ideals? I'm not a Democrat, nor have I ever been one (I was a registered Republican until 2003 and have been an independent since), and am not the least fond of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. As feckless as they are, they are the only party at the moment who actually believes in democracy.

In the words of David Frum (former speechwriter for Dubya), "If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”

As for your mistaken belief that Republican politicians, don't fetishize guns, "More than 100 television ads from Republican candidates and supportive groups have used guns as talking points or visual motifs this year. Guns are shown being fired or brandished ..." Hell, Ted Cruz made an ad of himself cooking bacon on the hot barrel of an AR-15.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by bobabode

It's bald faced lying like what I've bolded is why I don't engage with this poster.
You're dishonest, Mike.

It's his mission to defend tRump, tRumpism, conservatism no matter what facts and truth notwithstanding. You see, only he knows the truth.

Verbose, that's the word I was searching for. The harder he has to defend, deflect & excuse the conservative-ists in general and tRump in particular the wordier he gets.

[Pio1980]

The second amendment in the modern era of standing military with standardised arms is a right with no purpose if the originalist purpose was to make a standing army unnecessary.

It does NOT enumeratedly grant the right to armed insurrection under ANY circumstances.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

The second amendment in the modern era of standing military with standardised arms is a right with no purpose if the originalist purpose was to make a standing army unnecessary.

It does NOT enumeratedly grant the right to armed insurrection under ANY circumstances.

What would a 'right to insurrection' look like if you wrote it down? Something like "Everything in this document aside, if a group wants to they can just kill people until they get their way?" If a thing like that was 'lawful,' it would negate all other law. We'd be down to just might makes right.

Mind, we may get there. If a party negates the social contract by, say subverting elections and going non-democratic, the the constitution is overturned and rule of law does not exist, until it is restored.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

You're getting pretty verbose lately in defense of your wingnuttery, Mike. Wouldn't it be easier and more intellectually honest to admit to yourself that the GOP has become a party of nihilists who have given up on democracy in favor of an autocracy led by a malignant narcissist, inveterate liar and a traitor to our national ideals? [/URL].

I tend not to paint only with the largest brush I can find, Finn. I'll leave that to others.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

As for your mistaken belief that Republican politicians, don't fetishize guns, "More than 100 television ads from Republican candidates and supportive groups have used guns as talking points or visual motifs this year. Guns are shown being fired or brandished ..." Hell, Ted Cruz made an ad of himself cooking bacon on the hot barrel of an AR-15.

You're stating this proves your point? That Repubs wouldn't respond to the left's urging that the 2nd Amendment be repealed? Whatev'...

You are right about the Ted Cruz video though. That video bothered me too. I thought he used way too much foil when wrapping bacon around the gun barrel.

[whell]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

It's his mission to defend tRump, tRumpism, conservatism no matter what facts and truth notwithstanding. You see, only he knows the truth.

Verbose, that's the word I was searching for. The harder he has to defend, deflect & excuse the conservative-ists in general and tRump in particular the wordier he gets.

I didn't realize a recitation of facts from the survey bothered you so much. I'll try to be more cognizant of the audience when posting here.

Now...where did I put those Crayolas...

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

I tend not to paint only with the largest brush I can find, Finn. I'll leave that to others.

Don't sell yourself short. You paint with a very broad brush when it comes to defending Trump's criminal and treasonous conduct.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

You're stating this proves your point? That Repubs wouldn't respond to the left's urging that the 2nd Amendment be repealed? Whatev'...

You are right about the Ted Cruz video though. That video bothered me too. I thought he used way too much foil when wrapping bacon around the gun barrel.

There are plenty of mainstream Republicans who run ads or post pictures fetishizing their guns, but I don't know of any mainstream Democratic politicians running ads advocating for the repeal of the Second Amendment. Show me some.