Take Up Arms Against the Gov't?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

I didn't realize a recitation of facts from the survey bothered you so much. I'll try to be more cognizant of the audience when posting here.

Now...where did I put those Crayolas...

(T)his is a single survey presented as a thought piece. It was not presented as "conclusive evidence" about the beliefs of potential activities of one "side" or the other.

Which is it? A recitation of facts or a thought piece not presenting conclusive evidence?

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Which is it? A recitation of facts or a thought piece not presenting conclusive evidence?

It's whatever he can think of in the argument of the moment. The vital thing is to never not have an argument.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Don't sell yourself short. You paint with a very broad brush when it comes to defending Trump's criminal and treasonous conduct.

There you go again (said Reagan to Carter). I never defended any of Trump's conduct. I have consistently questioned the credibility and validity of much of the evidence that has been presented by the Jan 6th committee, and previously by the non-stop media barrage of non-news that occurred between 2016 and 2020. That's not defending, that's asking legit questions and making observations. I understand that act of doing that upsets you, and that's a shame.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

There you go again (said Reagan to Carter). I never defended any of Trump's conduct. I have consistently questioned the credibility and validity of much of the evidence that has been presented by the Jan 6th committee, and previously by the non-stop media barrage of non-news that occurred between 2016 and 2020. That's not defending, that's asking legit questions and making observations. I understand that act of doing that upsets you, and that's a shame.

Your response is what is commonly known as sophistry. By denying any and all allegations against Trump, you are defending him no less the Krazy Kraken Krewe did. You are just too far down the MAGA wormhole to recognize it.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Your response is what is commonly known as sophistry. By denying any and all allegations against Trump, you are defending him no less the Krazy Kraken Krewe did. You are just too far down the MAGA wormhole to recognize it.

Your response is what's commonly known as a fallacy. You're purposefully (or maybe just using lazy debate tactics) mischaracterizing my responses herein with a type of "you're either for us or against us" false choice. Doesn't take much logic or thought to use that kind of fallacy in discourse. It just takes the willingness to mischaracterize or demonize someone in an effort to score some cheap debate points. So, good for you: score one for Finn.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Which is it? A recitation of facts or a thought piece not presenting conclusive evidence?

The original post in this thread presented the survey, and the findings from the survey, as a thought piece for further intelligent discussion (which I am so far still waiting for).

The content of the survey - the fact that the survey had certain findings - was presented as a fact-based response to your specific comments - based on your interpretation that the survey showed Republicans or more likely to believe that someday it may be necessary to take up arms against the gov't.

Therein, I quoted specific survey findings. For example:

Fact - only 28% of survey respondents (which include both Repubs, Independents and Dems) indicated that they held that viewpoint. Last time I checked, 28% wasn't a majority of anything, much less parsing that number further across the 3 identified groups. It's a fact that this is what the survey found.

Fact - One in three Republicans, according to the survey, held that viewpoint. The same number - one in three - Independents held the same view. Last I checked (and this is another Fact) 33% isn't bigger than 33%.

It's also a Fact that it's funny I need to help you understand what facts are, and then point them out to you.

[whell]

Originally Posted by bobabode

It's bald faced lying like what I've bolded is why I don't engage with this poster.
You're dishonest, Mike.

Apparently, you didn't bother to look at the survey. Let me help you a bit.

A majority of Americans agree that the government is “corrupt and rigged against everyday people like me,” including 73 percent of voters who describe themselves as a “strong Republican,” 71 percent who called themselves “very conservative” and 68 percent of rural voters. A bare
majority (51 percent) of voters who call themselves “very liberal” also agreed. Overall, two-thirds of Republican and Independent voters agree that the government is “corrupt and rigged” against them, while Democrats are evenly split.

51%, while not a strong majority, are still a lot of Democrats who feel the deck is stacked against them. That's simply an observation from survey responses.

So, when you bolded the part of my response that said I was lying:

Especially with a story like this, that shows that folks of both political stripes have equivalent concerns about the direction their country is headed

What part of the above statement do you consider a "lie"? Or do you just call the folks you don't agree with "liars"?

From the survey:

About three-quarters (73 percent) of voters who identify themselves as Republican agree that “Democrats are generally bullies who want to impose their political beliefs on those who disagree.” An almost identical percentage of Democrats (74 percent) express that view of Republicans. A similarly lopsided majority of each party holds that members of the other are “generally untruthful and are pushing disinformation.”

I don't agree with the statement above, but it sure sounds like you might, Bob. In any case, the numbers are pretty evenly split above between Dems and Repubs. It supports the idea that folks in this country are losing the ability to engage in civil discourse with folks who may hold different viewpoints and generally don't trust folks they don't agree with. That's a problem, don't you think? Or am I "lying" about that too?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

You're purposefully (or maybe just using lazy debate tactics) mischaracterizing my responses herein with a type of "you're either for us or against us" false choice.

The nature of your sophistry is that you're always looking for one little (mostly irrelevant) nugget to exculpate or excuse the latest wrongdoing by Trump (of which there's plenty) and then claiming that you're not reflexively siding with him.

In today's America, you're either on the side of democracy and truth (us) or autocracy and lies (against us) and Trump's GOP has become the party of autocracy. It's just that simple. Capiche?

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by whell

It supports the idea that folks in this country are losing the ability to engage in civil discourse with folks who may hold different viewpoints and generally don't trust folks they don't agree with. That's a problem, don't you think? Or am I "lying" about that too?

Exactly what those of us who still consume our news by reading have been saying for a long time. It's (obviously) due to the propaganda perpetrated by the likes of Faux "News", et al. Folks like you absorb the propaganda without a second thought - exactly what the propagandists want. You are fodder for their fake "news", which you swallow willingly, then regurgitate here, and dog knows where else. Sad!

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by whell

I didn't realize a recitation of facts from the survey bothered you so much. I'll try to be more cognizant of the audience when posting here.

Now...where did I put those Crayolas...

Don't mind me. You keep on being you, to the very last. We've come to expect nothing less. Doesn't mean we're buying any of it though but of course you know that.