Wikileaks

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Oerets

Julian Assange played with fire and got burned. Releasing the information unfiltered or redacted more then likely ended up getting people killed. He might now see the error in his ways and is doing his best to avoid the wrath of the US.

As for the charges sure they could all be a ploy so the US can scoop him up. But also be true and needing to be prosecuted. If the charges are baseless does one not think it will be shown in any court case? Then who will have egg on their face?




Barney

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Assange is not afraid to face the sex charge. What he wants is a guarantee from Sweden that he will not be extradited to USA.

BINGO!

Dave

[finnbow]

I still don't see how or why it is illegal for a foreigner on foreign soil to release leaked classified material. I can see why Bradley Manning is in trouble. I cannot see why Assange has committed a prosecutable offense. Newspapers do it here every day of the week. In fact, the NYTimes printed a number of the leaks that Assange had acquired.

FWIW, Beej, I too had high level security clearances from DoD and DOE for over 30 years. There are lots of things that are classified that don't cross the requisite threshold out of laziness, concerns of embarrassment, or a desire of security types and classification speci@lists to retain their piece of the pie. A lot of ink has been spilled in years past over "overclassification" by our government and there's a lot of truth to it IMHO.

That said, Assange seems like a self-important prick. In and of itself, that's not a criminal offense (though rape is). Here in DC, self-important pricks are a dime a dozen.

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by CarlV

It is good that he is imprisoned in that embassy at least, stuck in a room with a tv, a phone, and a computer to live out his life. Just like Bin Laden.


Carl

At least Bin Laden didn't have to eat British take-out food!

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Combwork

U.K. government claims the right to send police into the Embassy to take him out by force. How f****** incompetent can the U.K. government get?

I have noticed on the BBC the UK spokesperson has softened his tone.....probably realised that the initial response was really bad PR.

[beej]

Originally Posted by finnbow

FWIW, Beej, I too had high level security clearances from DoD and DOE for over 30 years. There are lots of things that are classified that don't cross the requisite threshold out of laziness, concerns of embarrassment, or a desire of security types and classification speci@lists to retain their piece of the pie. A lot of ink has been spilled in years past over "overclassification" by our government and there's a lot of truth to it IMHO.

I can honestly say that I have never encountered anything that rose to the level you describe. I have seen things that I wasn't entirely clear about as to why they were classified at the level that they were but never anything that was classified but should not have been. In other words, I have seen material that I believed was overclassified, i.e., classified as Secret but really wasn't more than Confidential, but that was a matter of my opinion.

For those who don't know there's some pretty clear written guidance on how to determine the appropriate level of classification. One of my responsibilities was to assist decision makers in applying that criteria and in determining who the actual classification authority was. That's really kind of dry and technical and probably not of much interest here.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by beej

I think it's important to first discuss how material is determined to require a security classification to begin with. The classification 'secret' for example is defined as that information the disclosure of which could cause grave damage to the national security of the United States. There is a formal process in arriving at such a determination and the determination is only made by those with statutory authority to do so. Contrary to some popularly held views it is not something that is arrived at arbitrarily.

Why do I know this? For much of my 25 years in the Navy I worked closely with highly sensitive material of all classification levels involving both U.S. and NATO information. For 3 of those years I was responsible for all classified material up to and including Top Secret extant the Submarine Force, U. S. Atlantic Fleet.

That Julian Assange has decided that he is the self-appointed arbiter on that which is appropriately classified and that which is not is not only arrogant, presumptuous and inappropriate his behavior is damaging to the security interests of the United States and places at risk the lives of men and women in service to their country.

Any further questions on why I find Julian Assange's activities beyond offensive?

Here's what I say: when the grave damage to the security of the United States results from the disclosure of crimes committed by the government or people acting on its behalf, then damage away. Too often classification is used to conceal wrongdoing.

John

[beej]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Here's what I say: when the grave damage to the security of the United States results from the disclosure of crimes committed by the government or people acting on its behalf, then damage away. Too often classification is used to conceal wrongdoing.

John

Wow!

John, I must reiterate, I've seen volumes of classified material and had custody of quite a bit of it. Some of the access restrictions to it were pretty tight. I have never seen anything that could be described in that fashion.

I've seen investigations into some pretty serious blunders but the reason for the classification wasn't the blunder; it was the activity in which they were engaged when the blunder occurred that required classification. That's a pretty important distinction.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by beej

I can honestly say that I have never encountered anything that rose to the level you describe.

Every aspect of Cheney's Energy Task Force meetings has been classified, even the list of attendees.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by beej

I can honestly say that I have never encountered anything that rose to the level you describe. I have seen things that I wasn't entirely clear about as to why they were classified at the level that they were but never anything that was classified but should not have been. In other words, I have seen material that I believed was overclassified, i.e., classified as Secret but really wasn't more than Confidential, but that was a matter of my opinion.

For those who don't know there's some pretty clear written guidance on how to determine the appropriate level of classification. One of my responsibilities was to assist decision makers in applying that criteria and in determining who the actual classification authority was. That's really kind of dry and technical and probably not of much interest here.

For the most part, I think your experience reflects mine at various agencies' locations outside of DC. Inside the beltway is another story altogether. It's often about avoiding embarrassment for mismanaged programs. For example, are you familiar with the overblown NSA espionage case against Thomas Drake. He witnessed grievous mismanagement of an expensive and ineffective program at NSA and reported it to the DoD IG for review. It was all about NSA covering their own tracks for having mismanaged their program.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by beej

Wow!

John, I must reiterate, I've seen volumes of classified material and had custody of quite a bit of it. Some of the access restrictions to it were pretty tight. I have never seen anything that could be described in that fashion.

The overthrow of the Mosaddeq government

The overthrow of the Allende government

The repeated assassination attempts on Fidel Castro, some of them utilizing the Mafia

The assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem

Abu Graib


John (my name, not a classified operation)