Myers-Briggs...

[donquixote99]

From the Sandra Bland thread:

Originally Posted by Zeke

What judgment?

It's just true.

THIS suggests why MB assessment is not always very reliable.

Truth is not the issue. A 'true' judgement is still a judgement.

For example, an Islamist who says a western cartoonist is guilty of blasphemy may be rendering a true judgement, based on the standards of his religion. Or, if you think the standards for blasphemy are different , you may think it a false judgement. But the point, when describing the P/J personality dimension, isn't the truth or falseness. It's the fact of judging, deciding, settling the matter. J-types want to do that, without delay.

P-types prefer to keep the option open, and resist when J's insist that others immediately accept their 'true' decision.

Now, how can people accurately report their personality on a typing assessment when they do judge, but don't recognize what they do as judging?

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

What's the "-A" part mean, Ike?

Beats me. I never heard of an "A" suffix, or any other suffix on an MBTI type. Can you give me the website? I'll take a look.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Count me an INFP. I've measured INTP, but I know better.

That said, I have major problems sorting all mankind into 16 boxes, and in particular making decisions as to what to do with or to people thereby. Nor do I think it's usually good for people to have a box to call their own, as it were.

So you think you're MBTI "Temperament" is NF, eh?

This is how the MBTI Foundation describes NF:

NFs tend to approach life and work in a warm and enthusiastic manner, and like to focus on ideas and possibilities, particularly “possibilities for people.” They are often found in careers that require communication skills, a focus on the abstract, and an understanding of others. They tend to be less interested in careers that require an impersonal or technical approach to things and factual data. NFs are often found in the arts, the clergy, counseling and psychology, writing, education, research, and health care.

You think that sounds like you don?

The blonde looked around for a long time for as much info as she could get on her NF temperament. Her favorite description is as follows:

The combination of intuition and feeling is the most rare of the temperaments, with a distinct focus on the interpersonal. The problem for NF's is that while they are typically on the lifelong search for the meaning in life, often their frustration is that the search for the meaning in life...is the meaning in life.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

From the Sandra Bland thread:



THIS suggests why MB assessment is not always very reliable.

Truth is not the issue. A 'true' judgement is still a judgement.

For example, an Islamist who says a western cartoonist is guilty of blasphemy may be rendering a true judgement, based on the standards of his religion. Or, if you think the standards for blasphemy are different , you may think it a false judgement. But the point, when describing the P/J personality dimension, isn't the truth or falseness. It's the fact of judging, deciding, settling the matter. J-types want to do that, without delay.

P-types prefer to keep the option open, and resist when J's insist that others immediately accept their 'true' decision.

Now, how can people accurately report their personality on a typing assessment when they do judge, but don't recognize what they do as judging?

Water boiling at 212F or 100C isn't a judgment, it's just true.

I see your point, and it's a good one, but you're interpreting the word "true" incorrectly as it was used.

Our other thread end result was unexpected (like a liquid turning into a gas) but the process was completely linear, predictable and demanded.

Sum? Her culpability just is, as true as replicable science.

That's not judgment, that's math.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

So you think you're MBTI "Temperament" is NF, eh?
...
The blonde looked around for a long time for as much info as she could get on her NF temperament. Her favorite description is as follows:

The combination of intuition and feeling is the most rare of the temperaments, with a distinct focus on the interpersonal. The problem for NF's is that while they are typically on the lifelong search for the meaning in life, often their frustration is that the search for the meaning in life...is the meaning in life.

I continue to think the Meyers Briggs descriptions to be too rigid, reflecting an idealized typology more than reality. Moreover, I'm really uneasy about the way people take this stuff to heart. People have a need and desire, an instinct, to find a good story about themselves, something to believe about themselves. They then proceed to believe it, which has effects....

I also note a bit of temperament hierarchy creeping in, in this description of the 'most rare' of temperaments. But flattering the typeholder is a big 'secret' of this scheme's success.

If would be funny to do a parody that does the opposite, like that old list of insulting 'horoscope' descriptions.

(Found it. Just for an example, here's the Virgo one):

Virgo (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. Your nit-picking attitude is sickening to your friends and co-workers. You are cold and unemotional and often fall asleep while doing it. Virgos make good bus drivers and pimps.

By the way, to answer your question, no, I don't believe the MB 'NF' really describes me well.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

I continue to think the Meyers Briggs descriptions to be too rigid, reflecting an idealized typology more than reality.

I also note a bit to temperament hierarchy creeping in, in this description of the 'most rare' of temperaments. But flattering the typeholder is a big 'secret' of this scheme's success.

If would be funny to do a parody that does the opposite, like that old list of insulting 'horoscope' descriptions.

(Found it. Just for an example, here's the Virgo one): Virgo (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. Your nit-picking attitude is sickening to your friends and co-workers. You are cold and unemotional and often fall asleep while doing it. Virgos make good bus drivers and pimps.

Okay, that's good...

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Okay, that's good...

Thanks. I imagine you noticed I expanded my remarks after you posted.

BTW, I renewed my acquaintance with the MB basics a little. Based on this, I'm now OK with thinking the MB typing of 'T' is more me than 'F' would be. I was making the naive mistake of conflating 'feeling' with emotion in general. MB is getting at basing decisions on "objective principles and impersonal facts (Thinking)" vs. "personal concerns and the people involved (Feeling)."

My basic doubts about the usefulness of the whole scheme do remain. So I don't necessarily agree that assigning me a 'T' or and 'F' means I therefore am or should be what MB says about Ts or Fs.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Beats me. I never heard of an "A" suffix, or any other suffix on an MBTI type. Can you give me the website? I'll take a look.

http://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test

I think it means "assertive".

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

http://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test

I think it means "assertive".

OK...this is from "16 Personalities". I have no idea who these guys are. There are more and more web outfits offering what I consider to be a cheap and dirty MBTI-"like" screening that can be done really quickly and you get your "type" without a whole lot of effort or time. This test has a 6 choice range for each answer. I found it difficult to decide whether I was small, medium, or large on almost all the questions I looked at before i quit.

The MBTI and Keirsey instruments are called "forced choice" instruments. Each question has only two optional answers and you have to choose the one that fits you "best". Both systems instruct the user that they may skip questions they feel unable to respond to...but it's better if you keep the skipped answers to a minimum and just pick the answer which is "...closer to how you usually think or feel..." which is the language I was instructed to use when administering the MBTI.

The MBTI is 93 questions long and takes considerably longer than 12 minutes. The MBTI is available online at http://www.mbtionline.com/, it costs $49.95.

The Keirsey Temperament Sorter online test is 70 questions long. At http://www.keirsey.com/sorter/register.aspx. It's free.

If you want the most reliable results available you want to take the actual MBTI test or the Keirsey which is probably just as good. If you want a better screening than you got on "16personalities", and don't want to pay for it, take the time to do the Keirsey. The number of questions helps make the result more reliable.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Thanks. I imagine you noticed I expanded my remarks after you posted.

BTW, I renewed my acquaintance with the MB basics a little. Based on this, I'm now OK with thinking the MB typing of 'T' is more me than 'F' would be. I was making the naive mistake of conflating 'feeling' with emotion in general. MB is getting at basing decisions on "objective principles and impersonal facts (Thinking)" vs. "personal concerns and the people involved (Feeling)."

My basic doubts about the usefulness of the whole scheme do remain. So I don't necessarily agree that assigning me a 'T' or and 'F' means I therefore am or should be what MB says about Ts or Fs.

Self-selecting is actually an acceptable way to identify type. But as you found, that T vs F is really about one's preferences in decision making...there is some information provided that is important to know before one can self-select accurately. For instance Judging vs Perceiving has nothing to do with whether one is judgmental or perceptive. It has to do with a preference for wanting more structure and regularity in one's life (J) or preferring to not be locked in to particular patterns and be free to keep one's options open (P).

Of my four preferences the strongest is always the P preference. I'm an exceedingly big "P". I really like them open and available options. The blonde always scores zero in Sensing...she's the only person that I've ever seen in all the MBTI's I've administered that has a 100% Intuition preference in her answers.